- cross-posted to:
- lemmydirectory@lemmy.dbzer0.com
- cross-posted to:
- lemmydirectory@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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Air bnbs are a cancer. You should be ashamed of yourself if your buying property then renting it out. With what they charge they are able to pay tge mortgage in 3 nights
Funny how we vilify those who are renting it out, but not those that are renting. Its the scalper argument all over again. Blaming the seller, but not the buyer who creates the market. If no one rents, then no one is going to buy to set up an airbnb.
What about induced demand?
What about it?
Is the question about what it is or how it would apply to the situation at hand?
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Ok… What the fuck are you slabbering about? I was standing up for you, moron. I shouldnt have bothered. You deserve to stuck in rentsville with dog shit reading skills like that. Hope they put up more Airbnb, just to fuck YOU over more.
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Oh look, blaming the victim of your attack for their reaction. You werent civil, but for some reason I should be… lol Off you go.
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You are a moron, since I didnt blame any victims. And yeah, I do hope you get fucked, because cunts like you are why the internet fucking sucks. Keyboard warriors, with reading comprehension issues.
And this is why governemental regulation is the only way and why capitalism has its problems: Capitalists blaming the consumenr for the existing market. People will use the offer the capitalists create for them if it is convenient for them and they draw an advantage from it. Of course you can always blame the consumer, and protect the guy who out of pure compassion creates a market that destroys our world even faster. But hey, at least someone profitet from it in the meanwhile.
Im blaming the consumer for creating the market, because thats how markets work. You all might not want to think of yourselves as cunts, and that youre just the victims. But thats just a cozy little lie you tell yourselves. That fact is, you dont all fall over yourselves to buy, and there wont be a lot of people buying up homes to put them on airbnb.
Like I said, the scalper argument all over again, with the same “Its not my fault” attitude judging by the downvotes. If you dont get all those idiots buying playstations are 3 and 4 times the prices from Scalpers, then you dont get any scalpers buying up all the stock to make that profit.
Are we all children? We need mommy and daddy hold our hands? We cant just stop contributing to our own problems by ourselves? Are you all really that weak and pathetic?
I’d agree with you a lot more if AirBnB wasn’t a lot cheaper than any hotel or other travel accommodation. A town that relies on tourism might be different, but in the USA I save about $100 and get a more private place to stay.
Be better.
That’s the struggle every day, Pooptart. Every day; and in a system that doesn’t want me to.
Then who are you? Do you even know who you are as a person if you don’t have the ethics to make a stand? Do you just meh all over your morals? Just give up on everything you believe? Or is it that you don’t have morals, and you’re just making excuses?
Oh yeah. Here I’m just a silly little installation wizard who contributes here attempting to be meaningful and provide conversation nuggets. In real life I’m playing that balancing act between ethics, my resources/influence, and trying to not burn out.
I’ve done plenty of things based off of morals without it being the “smart” or most personally beneficial decision. AirBnB just isn’t one of those due to how much I can save and put towards local restaurants, bars, and tipping when I finally vacation. I also don’t trust hotel corps to use my money ethically, and have used an AirBnB maybe once a year on average. I’m hoping I can have another actual vacation soon since it has been 4 years.
Also, I strongly believe that my responsibility is taking care of my wife and family first, then community/political contribution.
What about you? Where do you stay when traveling where there aren’t friends or family?
I don’t travel. Like, at all. The most I travel is the 20 miles it takes to get my kid from his mom’s house. I don’t need the luxury of burning CO2 and ruining the housing market to have a good time.
And in there lies the rub. You can have somewhere cheap to stay, but the cost of housing go up everywhere. Or, you pay the extra hundred, and housing is more affordable for everyone.
This is what I mean by the scalper argument. Everyone wants a playstation, and some will 3 and 4 times the price for it. So now no one gets one, because the scalper buy up all the stock. In this case, you want to save 100 bucks. The knock on effect of that is that is that it contributes to increased cost of housing, and millions of people not being able to afford one.
I wouldnt worry too much. Looking at me downvotes, no one wants to blame you anyway. They are happy to just blame airbnb, and demand government regulation. Its pretty pathetic really.
True. I suppose it’s more of me placing the blame on large landlord corporations that own 20+ spaces to rent out rather than the AirBnB host with two houses. My local community is much more affected by the former than the latter. Is it the other way around in touristy towns outside the USA? I haven’t used any AirBnB abroad.
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This is the bullshit that allows this kind of game. Hate the player, hate the game, and hate the observer with a dumb fuck outlook.
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That’s a pretty short term view you have there. Good luck.
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Fuck me, for self-proclaimed coward you are unbelievably smug. Don’t you consider that a “better” life also means being able to take pride that the way you move through the world doesn’t actively harm others. Just awful.
Sorry, but I couldn’t live with myself if I made my outcome better by hurting others.
And I’m a combat vet. I’ve learned through my mistakes what I’m willing to live with on my conscience. It’s guided who I’ve become since then.
If you’re willing to give up your morals, ethics and self-consciousness for money, then I’d like to get in an octagon to teach you the difference between me and you.
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I also delivered school supplies to Iraqi children, you cunt. It’s not all black and white.
You are a combat vet? And you are here criticizing people for renting and teaching about morals? Holy molly, people have weird values.
I was misguided, but had virtuous ideals at the time. I’m not defending the evils in the world anymore. Unlike this person who is trying to justify being evil at this moment.
A lot of young people grow up believing there’s glory in war. But anyone who’s been through it sees how pointless it really is. Ruining soldiers, families, civilians, and even the land itself.
You saw the truth and came back better for it, and that’s worth more than any so-called victory. In the end, all people are equal; born, live, and then gone; war doesn’t change that. The best we can do is share what we’ve learned, so those who come after us don’t fall for the same lies. The rich sending the poor to die for their personal gain only shows how empty and corrupt they are.
I hope you’ve found your peace, P00ptart, and I hope your story helps sway people away from fighting wars.
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What you’re saying is akin to Jews that were selling out their peers in Nazi concentration camps. Because you’re just playing the game you’re in, right? That’s not your fault, right? You’re excusing doing horrible acts for personal survival. You’re no better than any Nazi trying to excuse their horrible choices during the Nuremberg trials.
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Source?
Get rid of air bnb and similar. It’s caused a ton of problems in Japan as well with people buying whole buildings and pricing out existing tenants. There are legal protections, but most tenants, particularly elderly, don’t know about them and either pay new increased prices by the new landlord or move out. The government enacted laws requiring a minpaku (think lodging/hotel) license and putting maxes on time, but tons of people still run illegal ones.
A lot of those people seem to be Chinese investors running them off of other sites which has furthered anger and xenophobia against all foreigners. One of the parties that skyrocketed in the most recent election wants to strip property rights from all foreigners and not just investment properties but ALL properties. It’s a reaction to getting priced out and the government not doing shit about it. Granted, there are tons of other problems (prices rising weekly or monthly, wages not keeping up at all with inflation and rising prices, and overtourism more generally), but this is low-hanging fruit.
As someone who just bought a house last year (on the market for over a year in the countryside with farmland for which I had to interview and get permits to buy and use), and volunteers in his community, this is terrifying to me. I had to go through tons of extra hoops just for being a foreigner to begin with and now, thanks to fuckhead illegal hotel owners and bad policy, now lots of people want to take the one little bit of stability I finally felt.
thanks to fuckhead illegal hotel owners
Wrong fight, wrong enemies
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I’ve never understood the appeal of AirBNBs, letting complete strangers stay at my house sounds like it’d be an absolute NIGHTMARE.
It’s not people’s houses anymore. It’s all property investors.
An important population we need to increase is ethical landlords.
And by ethical, I mean former.
The only good landlord is a former landlord.
I have a pretty good landlord. This isn’t an ACAB situation. The problem is the market, IMO, if not capitalism entirely; even if you got rid of landlords (made it illegal to have tenants), housing prices would still be too high to buy a house. Supply-side or demand-side economics are the only viable solution under capitalism.
We could still have great property managers without landlords. Then you wouldn’t even need to be thankful that your lord happens to be one of the benevolent ones.
Blaming the landlord is more of a meme. Don’t take it seriously
All landlords are bastards
…no, that’s just what I said is not the case. You must have misread?
Looking at the instances you two are from I feel like I’m taking crazy pills 🫨
Sorry, I forgot to tell you that today is opposite day.
You sound like a slave complimenting his owner for being such a kind-hearted masser who treats him good
oh that’s so sweet, you think i’m naïve <3
Yeah, and there will always be a demand for temporary housing. Even if every person has property, tourists need places to stay, you’d need a place to stay if your house is leveled by a natural disaster, it doesn’t make sense to jump through all the hoops of property ownership if you just want to be closer to mom’s nursing home in her final months, etc.
The problem isn’t filling that need, it’s making a profit off it.
under capitalism, almost nothing happens without a profit. If you’re so sure the problem isn’t capitalism, please explain to me how exactly you’re imagining things should work.
I don’t know how you got ‘this person is pro-capitalism’ from me saying ‘profit is the problem’.
I said:
The problem is the market, IMO, if not capitalism entirely
but it seemed to me that you were disagreeing with my post when you said “the problem is making a profit off it.” I could have misunderstood, and you were agreeing?
You think capitalism is the problem, yes? If so, we are in agreement.
that’s excellent
What I don’t get is why the people of Barcelona want tourists out. That’s such a dumb knee-jerk reaction imho. Tourism is not the problem. In fact it’s a major revenue for the city. They could use it to build affordable housing for locals. The government could put a cap on rent and similar restrictions on whatever Airbnb arrangements. If it’s not more profitable to give out one’s property for short term rentals then the trend will fade. If someone can explain the current anti-tourism stance as opposed to a push for alternative measures I’d appreciate it.
The government could put a cap on rent and similar restrictions on whatever Airbnb arrangements.
Not easy. They tried but don’t have the authority. I think they managed for home long term rentals but not as aggressive as before.
The revenue from tourism is limited to the city. Most rentals are owned by large foreign companies, so profit goes away. Clearly not enough to pay for extra housing (one airbnb house taxes can’t pay for a full new house).
Also, they are pushing away people who lived there, as the neighborhoods are focusing on tourists more and more (again, foreign investment firms who don’t spend back in the city).
I used to live 25 min walking to Sagrada Familia. 8 years ago there were usually no tourists or stores focused on tourists. Now it’s a very common place for tourists to stay, and prices show it.
Hello,
Not sure if you’re still in Barcelona, but there is !barcelona@piefed.social
Not anymore, recently left. Honestly tourism and it’s many side effects was one of the motivating factors.
I definitely get that. Are you still in Spain or have you moved abroad ?
Tourism is cancer
I’m guessing all those things that could and should happen are not happening because of greed.
Because the people making money are not the people living there.
From what I heard from my brother, he lives in Barcelona, they are banning bnbs and short term rentals. In order to combat this problem.
That’s great for them. But I live in the capitalist nightmare that is the US. I’m one generation removed from being able to go back to Norway or Sweden. It’s like being imprisoned in a hellscape at birth.
For more details: https://www.euronews.com/travel/2024/07/22/the-end-of-airbnb-in-barcelona-what-does-the-tourism-industry-have-to-say
I live here (!barcelona@piefed.social), the mayor who announced the decision made it so that it would applied after the end of his tenure (that will end in 2027, the decision is supposed to happen in 2028)
The other issue is that even besides tourism, Barcelona is a very attractive city for Spanish people due to the work opportunities, and there is definitely a lack of supply for the housing market. Getting back the Airbnb would help with the mass tourism (which is an issue of its own), but the housing crisis might still be there for a while.
So it is the same as in the rest of Europe with a helping of mass tourism so similar to Amsterdam and Paris.
It’s a bit different, Amsterdam and Paris are touristic destinations, but not to the same level as Barcelona.
By absolute numbers, Paris has obviously more visitors (22 millions vs 13 for Barcelona and 10 for Amsterdam), but Paris is much more populated than Barcelona.
Also, the type of tourism is quite different. Amsterdam and Paris are more expensive, while Barcelona is still seen as a cheaper destination, which brings a different type of crowd. On the same topic, the average level of income of the people living in Barcelona is quite lower than people living in Paris or Amsterdam, making it even more difficult for people living in Barcelona to compete against either tourists or “digital nomads” coming here to work without paying taxes locally.
Sources
No I get it is not the same but the problems are similar. Too many tourist in a city with too few houses and apartments that are now being used as bnbs.
Yes indeed. I think in Europe the worst is probably Lisbon, that has basically been overrun by foreigners, but that’s a common phenomenon in all major cities.
I did know about Lisbon. I remember hearing the Swiss canton of Vaud had around 60% of it’s population was foreigners. Which resulted in the local Swiss no longer being able to afford any form of housing anymore.
that has basically been overrun by
foreigners, greedy real estate investorsThere, FTFY
Greedy real instate investors bought everything there because there was a demand from non Portuguese people with much higher salaries than the locals.
You don’t see that type of phenomenon in random towns in the Portuguese back country
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What is that even supposed to mean? You sold the home to someone else who rents it out?
Property owners realized they can do a long term rental for $2000/month, or short-term rentals for $2000/week. Obviously, they chose the more profitable one. So people who want to live in a place long term, perhaps fueling the local economy and community, get pushed out.
Then, the places that remain as long term rentals raise the prices because there’s fewer of them competing (assuming they aren’t already forming a cartel)
Personally I think the state should have a heavier hand in providing housing. It’s too essential to let private forces squeeze it for profit.
I want to live in your world where everyone owns their own home
I’m renting. And if the owner sells the place, that’s their right and prerogative to do so.
They must have delicious boots
Yeah, a tenant should definitely have more rights over the owners property than the owner. Keep thinking that way.
Long term renter evicted in favor of short term Air BnB.
The houses were being rented to locals who are now pushed out so the houses can be offered as much more expensive airbnbs.
Literally just happened to my coworker and I’m in America…
Landlord sold the house to some scumbag Airbnb parasite who then kicked my coworker out. The whole town is turning into this because rich fucks want to come walk around for 3 months of the year… Then it turns into a ghost town because we’ve all been pushed out.
The tourists and techbros wonder why the city isn’t as fun or cool as it used to be. It’s because those people had to leave. Tech bros and corporations created this shit.
Assuming that you’re asking in good faith - People are frequently evicted from longterm rented accomodation because the landlord can make more profit from AirBNB. This in turn reduces the pool of available housing and drives up rents.
Overtourism in Barcelona has meant the locals have been priced out (gentrified) out of their own city.
They could have been renters in the first place.
Over in my parts we had a big problem of landlords jacking up rent to squeeze tenants out and list the property on Airbnb. I haven’t followed those trends in a while though. I think the turnover/cleaning cycle cut into ROI and discouraged that trend a bit.
completely unrelated to your comment but the post above this one was a few children roleplaying guillotine
i know. unrelated to this topic, but its pretty neat
I saw that pic too! Coffee hadn’t kicked in yet and took me a second to realize what was going on. Kids toys are so bland these days.
I get that people want to see regulations on landlords, etc, but naysayers here don’t seem to have considered that it might be easier to convince would-be tourists that a place isn’t a relaxing holiday destination than it is to get a majority of the right level of politicians to agree to draft complex legislation in opposition from monied and powerful capitalist interests. Targeting tourists is totally fair game and good strategy, that doesn’t rule out pursuing regulations as well.
Shouldnt have sold your home to a parasite corporation then, doesnt sound very anarchist to me. Then gets angry and enshittifies their city with spraypaint, people from barca aren’t the brightest bunch.
Are you lobotomised? Obviously the author doesn’t own the house duh
Airbnb used to be great… I could rent out a spare room and make a bit of cash. Then the developers, and the people who weren’t responsible enough to be landlords had to make houses that were all AirBnb.
Why don’t these places vet Airbnbs instead of straight banning it. Owner occupied dwellings should get a pass.
I remember when it was about renting your place for a few days when you were traveling
Do those rentals still exist?
No because they dont really work.
You wouldn’t want randos in your house like that
That was some time ago, but I think we stayed in one of those. At least it looked like someone just left for the weekend. Also in a room that probably the mom rent out after the kids moved out. So yes, it’s probably still a thing
Spain is cracking down on this according to a local when I was there recently.
On Airbnb or the garfiti?
Air bnb. Actually, I think street art is pretty encouraged. But not tagging like this.
Airbnb
garfiti
I choose to interpret this as referring specifically to Garfield Grafitti.
Build. More. Homes.
We used to have enough, and then in the late 70s, early 80s they decided that if they didn’t build enough, then they could make housing scarce and therefore more valuable. A big long-con, 40 years in the making.
Housebuilders would make more profit per home. Homeowners would have more wealth (even if they can’t access it). Inheritance taxes could take more of a bite. Landlords could charge more. Retirements could be funded entirely by buying 2-3 houses and renting them out, and then cash in later on the full value of those homes when they’d gone up by double the interest rates.
They don’t have to be amazing homes. They don’t need an acre of land to sit on. They don’t need three bedrooms. Kitchen, bedroom, bathroom, living room. Affordable on a quarter of a single person’s minimum wage income.
you just have to make sure that the new houses aren t bought by landlords…
The landlords aren’t doing anything wrong, if the market price is too high you have to increase supply it’s that easy.
ethically wrong or legally wrong?
I mean my statement is pretty broad, there might be some landlords somewhere who do things that are either ethically or legally wrong. But in general they aren’t doing either. Landlords are people who invest their money and time in housing and just like any investment they want it to be profitable. If it’s too profitable it’s not their fault, it’s that we have to build more houses, have better transportation and better public housing to ease off pressure on the private market, not kill all landlords.
They certainly aren’t doing anything unexpected.
But, the word “wrong” carries an implication of moral judgment, and most people here are gonna disagree with you on that one.
That is one of the reasons conservatives are so gung-ho on rugged individualism and individual responsibility while being against regulation. In public they get to tell supporters that they are all strong smart boys who can make their own decisions, while also implying that “others” in disadvantaged groups are in their situations due to character flaws and subhuman status. In private they get to ruin the world and apparently prey on children pretty often because the people impose no rules on them.
Large numbers of individuals are easy for them to manipulate. Written laws and regulations are much less so, even though not impervious.
Edit to add:
This whole “they are behaving as expected == they are not doing anything wrong” attitude from the right quickly morphs into “they are a business, not a charity” and other similar sayings.
That flawed reasoning plus a few more leaps in logic then leads to seeing profitability as an indicator of morality.
And even THAT infiltrates personal lives. Resting for mental & physical health instead of building a skill or starting a side hustle? Laziness! Wasted hours of your life!
Spend some time and money on a hobby that brings joy to your life and gives you a reason to exercise? Wasteful! Selfish! Foolish! Just think of what that money could have done in the market h while you chose a better hobby that could scale into something profitable!!
Whoa whoa hold the fuck up. What do you mean that you intentionally lose money on your hobbies!? What kind of god-fearing red-blooded american just tosses aside the Rules of Acquisition so carelessly?
You have to realise that landlords aren’t the plague. They’re the buboes. A symptom.
If you can take your spare money (a concept from days gone by, I know), buy a house for X, rent it out for Y a month, then finally sell it in 20 years for Z, and be 99.99% guaranteed to make more money from it than you can from pretty much any other source, then why wouldn’t you?
Remove the incentive for that (homes that don’t go up by more than the inflation rate), there will be no need for them to exist.
But in any case, the size of the building projects required would likely be government level anyway, and they can be the “landlord” for anyone not wanting to buy. This was called council houses in the olden days, before Maggie Thatcher killed that.
While I understand your point, I don’t think I fully agree with it. If house prices are connected to inflation, what is there to stop somebody from buying a house and renting it out. The rent money is used to buy a second house and so on. The price of houses will go up, and so will the rent. But the houses themselves were bought at a lower price, so house prices going up would not have any influence on the landlord. In the meantime the rent keeps going up, reultiyin more profit in the end.
Now of there would be a taxation based on actual worth of a person. And the amount of taxation is based on the minimal income in a country…
Maybe a bit farfetched and I do not know if I explain it in a way that I get my idea across.
If house prices were directly connected to inflation, there would be no issue.
But they run far above inflation. This is what gets a pack of landlords involved.
There’s a point where putting your money into a basic stock market tracker gives a better return than landlording. That’s when they go and do that instead. It’s a lot less up front investment, and a lot less risk.
It’s mostly the spiralling house prices that attracts the landlord class, not the rent. The house is making money even if there’s nobody in it. Rent is just the icing on the cake. Right now they just cannot lose.
one home per person, no homes owned by businesses
apartment buildings become condos, each unit owned by a person to do with as they please
woodchip any business owners who fight back against the new regulation
I realize that not all landlords are to blame, just the greedy ones. There are way more of those.
spare money
I hate you
We already have enough homes, it’s just that too many of them are owned by Black Rock and similar companies.
I thought investment companies didn’t own that many, but just enough to bump the price too high. Like they influenced the market. Now developers are building in the hopes they get bought by the investment guys.
It really baffles me that it’s legal to own a house
You mean like as opposed to a government assigned home?
You can’t really live without air, food and a home, it’s a basic need, it should not be something you can horder like a dragon and deny the access to others
It’s very interesting this binary thinking in terms of good vs evil, private own vs government own, it’s very hard to think outside bourgeoisie ideology?
You said a lot of stuff but I don’t think any of it would really help someone who isn’t on the same page as you already
I don’t think I said anything too complicated to understand, we have a problem, people starve but there’s a lot of food, people are homeless but there’s a lot of houses
People normalize food been trashed while other people starve, this is not normal, and we all know what need to be done, this system does not work for the majority of the people
I know what you said; all I’m saying is that your original comment didn’t account for the audience well. I think both of your comments (this and the former) are great and informative, but the one I’m replying to now is much better for someone that isn’t already in the know on the general concepts. I appreciate the effort you put into them both :)
I think it can be generally said that the US and their success stories are a force for the bad in the world.
All the high profile multi-billion dollar tech companies to arise in the last 15-20 years have been some form or other of using technology to skirt existing regulations and to move the risk and expense onto others.
PayPal, Uber, Airbnb, DoorDash, you name it, their “innovations” weren’t any kind of innovation in technology, they were innovations in creative ways to make something 5% more convenient at the expense of making it 500% worse all round for everyone.
