Isn’t the context of the whole black thing about DEI/Affirmative action though?
Yes, it is. He always used to harp on affirmative action DEI leading to less qualified and able people getting jobs. So this results in the perception that any minority working in a qualified profession like pilot is only there because of DEI, not because of their skills and qualifications.
Watch this video for context. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDjN6A8ruo4 Parts of it are used in the submitted edit.
Charlie Kirk has said plenty of crap. There’s no need to misrepresent his views by selective editing.
Charlie Kirk has said plenty of crap. There’s no need to misrepresent his views by selective editing.
That’s why I’m questioning why people are using this. There’s literally a clip of him going on about “prowling blacks”
I think his point was that affirmative action would justify forms of racism in a way, and that was a bad thing, so he was calling it out
But that is not what DEI does. DEI is there ro combat the old white boys club. What makes you think hiring Smith’s sin is going to get you the best candidate. To think without DEI you where Gurung the best candidate is such bullshit.
Exactly, I heard this from people from literal NASA. It changed my whole perspective. It’s about ensuring the maximum number of viewpoints around a given table, because that’s how you avoid blind spots. You want as many perspectives as possible on a problem.
Diversity in a team has lots of advantages, but that’s not directly related to DEI, affirmative action, and quotas.
Diversity isn’t directly related to DEI (Diversity, Equity, Inclusion)? Oh. Ok.
Yes, I didn’t phrase that well. DEI is more than its three components. You can have diversity without equity and inclusion. You can have equity and inclusion without affirmative action and quotas. Diversity, equity, inclusion is a desired outcome with typically quotas being the main tool. So DEI as a term is mostly interchangeable with affirmative action and quotas. People opposed to quotas aren’t necessarily opposed to diversity.
So it doesn’t apply to pilots then? Kinda just meetings?
There’s an episode of Reply All about this where they talk about efficiency and how more diverse teams are not necessarily more efficient at the beginning but over time greatly increase efficiency because more diverse life experience results in more ideas.
I think the episode is #52: Raising the Bar
Basically, when faced with a difficult problem, a more diverse team gets better results, which makes sense because different life experiences = different knowledge bases = fewer gaps.
DEI, affirmative action, and quotas are well intentioned to offset systemic disadvantages. How this is implemented and executed on in practice varies a lot. The results of these measures to enable societal change are mixed.
Instead of using race as a proxy for disadvantaged groups, using quotas for people from poor districts, people with non academic parents, etc. directly might be more beneficial and more broadly accepted in society. The problems in the US, and elsewhere, start with access to and quality of education from childhood on. Trying to fix that with racial quotas for universities seems to be the wrong end.
Have 60 years of affirmative action fundamentally changed the success of African Americans? How much longer should these programs be used?
What about the poor whites who now vote for Trump? They are not part of the good old boys white elite club either. The US is obsessed with race and should move beyond it.
There’s research on affirmative action and it’s effectiveness and overall the results are a bit meh. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ejsp.2991
But that’s bullshit. They are still qualified it just makes you look at other people. The amount of people who don’t understand DEI is insane. Watch John Stewart’s video in it.
Sounds like something to put on my list.
Frequently wrong, never in doubt.
Almost all of the people paying tribute to him didn’t care at all about him a couple weeks ago will stop caring about him completely in a few weeks.
Bingo. At least not beyond the tragedy of a young person dying.
To steal the term: ‘virtue signaling’
Eh, I’d wager alot of these people got seduced by self-righteous outrage. It makes people feel good about themselves.
No comment on genocidal replacement theory or Christofascist rationale for Zionaziism. Why omit the absolute worst of Kirk?
…Simone Biles is weak? The fuck?
I knew about a lot of the other shit he said, but that one is just… baffling
I imagine he was talking about her decision to pull out of competition for a while due to mental health. (And now she’s back and crushing it again.)
Still makes him wrong. And he was still a racist asshole. But I bet that what he was on about.
she is black and a woman, that is enough of a reason for the righties.
eww. black AND a woman? is there any worse person ever?
/s to be safe.
She took a break from gymnastics for mental health reasons. I expect this is why she is “weak”.
I’m sure the real reason to attack her is to convince others to see metal health struggles as weakness, so they don’t stop producing capital.
Apparently she’s only the GOAT because of DEI, or maybe Critical Race Theory.
I guess thousands of hours in the gym since she was a baby, then winning dozens of tournaments and Olympics, have nothing to do with it. The only reason she’s considered great, is because her gymnastics judges from all over the world decided to apply DEI and Critical Race Theory to ALL her performances, and give her better scores then her white (or other black) teammates/ opponents, and they did it at every tournament, for YEARS.
That’s how she became the greatest of all time. Not because she really is. That title should go to a white gymnast, just because she’s not black.
Way more than mildly infuriating. The celebration of this guy is one of the most upsetting things to have happened in my lifetime.
Thank you for posting this. I had family that was confused about my repulsion and disgust concerning Kirk. Only encountering him in the limited capacity that he would be talked about in church. Digging on the web or YouTube even just returns a deluge white washing of his character. Even knowing the clips to look for, it was hard to find actual examples of them. Due to all the flood of bullshit coverage. Saved and Shown.
The issue is, clips like this, people will just say “you took his words out of context with sound bites”.….while completely ignoring that the shit he says in this clip, has no way to get better in context. It’s just straight up racist hate filled maga speak.
The ones that do that were never reachable anyhow. Which unfortunately includes my mother. Upon being confronted with this she kept saying that the clips were taken out of context. When I asked her what context would make the things he said not hateful and bigoted. All she could do was keep repeating that they were taken out of context.
thats why the gop is trying very hard to martyr him, but hes spew so much vile hateful things, and have been used as propaganda on youtube for months on end, its hard to find something Righteous, justice about him. unlike if someone shot a person in the MEast.
and also the gop dont really care about him, they are grifting right now.
I have sound off and that’s enough to know about him.
I don’t condone what happened to Charlie Kirk, but Charlie Kirk condoned what happened to Charlie Kirk.
People often use the word “Ironic” wrong. A person who encourages gun violence, dying of gun violence, is a perfect example of true irony.
It’s like a bulleeeeeeet in the neck when all you needed was a fork
He wanted public executions and for kids to watch it.
he was unaware he was calling for his own, by someone further right from his own party.
Ironic that we all got to watch his, whether we wanted to or not.
Deliciously ironic. Not condoning it! But boy, is it rich! Not condoning. But lolol.
I could care less what happened. And hope a couple more go. They want the guns don’t care about shootings. Well maybe if a couple of them die instead of kids they well start caring.
They’ve never cared about the victims of gun violence before.
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Pretty much what I expected tbh. Surprised it wasn’t worse
The masses are asses.
jesus christ it just keeps going…and going…and going
And that is the tip of the iceberg because Seneca could have put together a series-worth of hate quotes from Kirk. He spent years and years spreading hate, fear, and stochastic terrorism.
The gall for this piece of shit to have called another person unintelligent or sociopathic, holy fuck. No tears will be shed by me.
You can see him distort his face even to make some of his claims. I couldn’t watch past several seconds. That doesn’t strike me as being confident. Though he clearly wanted to say those things. Real piece of trash.
Jokes on them I’m unemployed
Holy God man. I expected it to be bad and it was so much worse.
I do understand saying deliberately wrong things just to get attention, and I think assassinating anybody is a horrifying and wrong thing to do, but out of all the variety, the thing about Clarence Thomas being greater than MLK Jr makes me want to go punch his corpse in the face.
It is even worse. That clip at the end where he says “it’s worth it”, was in response to school shootings.
Its also heavily edited to make it look so much worse.
Ive give the first example, the “If I see a black man flying a plane…” one. The context was DEI. He was talking about the resent the cases where DEI initiatives were putting people into positions either in jobs or in colleges based not on their qualifications, but on their skin colour and/or sex/gender. It wasnt just a blanket statement that black people cant do jobs at high levels, it was statement about how shitting employment and enrolment practices are, that we are no long getting the best person for the job.
An example of this in my own country is the RAF. They were caught passing over more qualified straight white men for promotion because they wanted more women and people of colour. The excuse given at the end of the investigation was that it was “positive discrimination”, so therefor it was totally fine to do it. Turns out, it wasnt.
Another example here is George Abaraonye, the president elect of the Oxford Union. His grades didnt meet the requirement to even be considered for a place. But he got a place anyway based on… you guessed it. The fact that hes black. And even though hes made many public statements that call for violence over debate, hes now the president elect of the Oxford Union. A debating society.
So while Kirk is/was still a bellend, he didnt say what the video makes it look like it said most of the time. Why are people doing this? I dont know. Because the shit he actually said was bad enough. It didnt need this fiction that everyone repeats.
Well, no. Kirk was still a shit. These conartists will take a sliver of truth and build a racist narratives around it. Anyone who could cut though the bullshit and deliver a good faith discussion on DEI gets drown out by the charlitins because there’s no audience for that. Kirk was both proving a shit produce to his customer base and increasing that customer base because he always had to ratchet up his rhetoric because he’s competing against the other shitspinners.
Another example here is George Abaraonye, the president elect of the Oxford Union. His grades didnt meet the requirement to even be considered for a place. But he got a place anyway based on… you guessed it. The fact that hes black. And even though hes made many public statements that call for violence over debate, hes now the president elect of the Oxford Union. A debating society.
How do you even fucking know that? Why are you worried about a “debating society”? Are you worried that someone unqualified to be a debater has the position now and we’ll all have lower quality debates on the shelves of grocery stores? The only reason you give a shit about that is because someone told you to.
The DEI pilot clips were also edited alongside his comments about Michelle Obama and a couple of other prominent black women (the “brain processing power” clip) to make it seem like he was saying black pilots are stupid. However, the DEI argument is not an intelligent or nuanced one and you are falling into the trap of giving it more respect than it deserves. It’s an obvious trojan horse for racism and paragraphs of anecdotes from a different country don’t change that.
Im not giving it any respect, Im simply pointing out that his comments are edited. Thats it. Im not saying hes right. Only that we should be pissed off at what he said, not what clickbait told us he said.
That doesn’t explain why you felt the need to give examples from your own life that support Kirk’s argument.
Because those are examples of what he was talking about. Im adding context. Information is king. Do you not agree? If you dont know something, how can you ever hope to understand a persons point of view? If you dont understand their point of view, how can defeat them in debate?
The easy way to look at this, is the thing that almost everyone does these days. They take one example of something that offends them, and then applies it to the whole. The immigrate who rapes a child 2 minutes off the boat, the left wing lunatic with blue hair that says all men are rapists, the right wing lunatic that says all women should be in the kitchen. We see these examples everyday, and people use them as excuses to be horrible people. Does my pointing out the RAF and the Oxford Union instances make something true? No. But you need to know them, so that you know where someone else is coming from. So you that you can say “yes, but…”. Too much of online discourse is “thats lie!” with nothing to back up the claim. You can google those two things, and see that they are true. And you can then understand why someone might make a claim based on those two examples. But thats when you would, or should, point out the instances where it wasnt the case. Thats how the debate goes. We dont just accept what strangers on the internet tell us is true, or worse what gets us worthless internet points.
The only way to combat hate is with truth. And in order to gain truth, you must have information. Even when that information breaks what you thought to be true, or just makes it harder to prove whats true. I cant just be circlejerking all the time.
I don’t see how any of that is relevant, unless you are attempting to deflect criticism away from Kirk’s beliefs. It’s enough to say the DEI comments are edited. You don’t need to start explaining why his argument is technically correct in some cases, because all that does is justify its continued use. It’s a bad faith argument based on racial hatred. That’s it, there is no “well ackchyually” with this stuff.
Im not explaining why its correct, Im explaining why he made it. Because the general idea is that he was just straight up racist. Which may very well be true, but if you have the context of why he said it, or at least the context in which he presented the argument, then you can understand it and challenge it. No? If all you think of someone is that they are a racist, then you can easily dismiss them. But that doesnt challenge the point. And if you hate that so many others are listening to the point, then its on you to challenge them with truth, rather than just calling them bigots and getting a pat on the back from like minded internet strangers.
Im advocating for people to arm themselves with information. I dont really see why thats so wrong.
DEI initiatives were putting people into positions either in jobs or in colleges based not on their qualifications, but on their skin colour and/or sex/gender
…they just added those to “being good at sports” as far as US colleges go…
honestly I think he makes himself look plenty bad editing aside. have seen plenty of clips of him talking about women and minorities - there’s no ‘context’ that makes calling people of color DEI at every turn OK.
Frankly I find your fixation on the DEI thing - both in the RAF and otherwise - telling. you’re so busy worrying about what other people accomplished perhaps you should focus on your own fuckin lane.
no one took your opportunities.
Which is my point, he doesnt need to be edited.
As for the rest of what you said, sorry, but thats just not true. People who werent qualified or as qualified as others got preference over others because of their skin colour in those instances that I mentioned. If you want to argue that its not that wide spread, thats fair enough. But it does happen, and I proved it with these two easily variable truths. Im sorry that hurts your feelings, but maybe you need to grow up a little bit, and understand that the heroes and villains of the world dont fit so neatly into the boxes youve prepared for them.
Also, the point about DEI isnt that black people or women or whoever else gets a job. The point is about the companies making these token gestures of representation so they can get a pat on the back from social media. And that its these companies that have created this atmosphere where people are looking at black people in jobs and unsure if they gained that job through merit or because some company wanted to fill a quota.
More to the point, because they create these token placements, we dont address other areas like black people have fewer opportunities to get the education needed to compete on an equal level. Black people arent stupid, but its easy to see that they are limited, especially in the US, to having access to higher education. And even more so prestigious higher education.
The problem, IMO, of DEI is that it addresses the symptoms in a superficial way for social media back slapping purposes, but doesnt address the causes of why these programs need to exist at all. Is this a right wing view? I think black people should have better access to the tools needed to compete, you think they should just be handed things as they need the charity. But you call me the asshole? Hmm…
People who werent qualified or as qualified as others got preference over others because of their skin colour in those instances that I mentioned.
then start documenting it, if it’s real you should be able to prove a single instance for sure, right?
pft. you’re an unfettered racist. the problem, IMO, is that you only see what you want to see.
I already did. Twice in fact. What a silly goose you are. Just desperate to call people racist, so you can get your little up arrow touched.
Ok add the context: He was responding to the article that United was going to add more women and people of color to their… TRAINING program. Is there anything wrong with adding DEI to a training program as an opportunity? Both groups are drastically underrepresented, like in the under 10 percent range or so.
The qualifications are the same, they can’t be a pilot without the qualifying. It was not a pass to skip training or auto pass a test.
So either Charlie is lying, stupid, or just plain racist. He does not get a pass on that. He was definitely saying they cant do the job.
Thats fine. Thats a perfectly valid rebuttal to what he said. Because its addressing what he actually said, and not some edited clip to get clickable ragebait.
And the clip at the end about it being worth it was about school shootings. He thinks school shootings are worth it for gun rights.
This was about 250 clips. Are you telling me every single one of those was perfectly fine in context?
Not what he said. Again, edited. The full context is that he was saying that society pays a price for the nice things it has. His other example was cars.
“You will never live in a society where you have an armed citizenry and you won’t have a single gun death. That is nonsense. It’s drivel. But … I think it’s worth it. I think it’s worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational.”
“Having an armed citizenry comes with a price, and that is part of liberty. Driving comes with a price – 50,000, 50,000, 50,000 people die on the road every year. That’s a price. You get rid of driving, you’d have 50,000 less auto fatalities. But we have decided that the benefit of driving – speed, accessibility, mobility, having products, services is worth the cost of 50,000 people dying on the road. … We should have an honest and clear reductionist view of gun violence, but we should not have a utopian one.”
Up to you if think hes right about the 2A being a nice thing for society to have. He thought it was in order for the people to protect themselves against a tyrannical government. Personally, I didnt agree with him for a multitude of reasons. But I disagreed with what he said, not what he didnt say.
I have heard the entire thing. And I don’t see how what you wrote is any better. It doesn’t change the statement at all.
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“Charlie Kirk said that a certain number of kids dying is an acceptable cost of having guns.”
“You brainwashed idiots are making stuff up and falling for outrage bait! What he said, if you look at the full quote, is that a certain number of kids dying is an acceptable cost of having guns, AND a certain amount of traffic fatalities is worth it to have cars.”
“How does that additional context in any way change the relevant part that we find horrible?”
“You should just know, and if you can’t figure out why I think it changes it you’re a fucking idiot.”
What a conversation.
I suppose this is the part where you take offense to me summarizing your position instead of using direct quotes, while not explaining how anything you said is actually meaningfully different.
Well, Im not going to take offence, but I will point that you have in fact misrepresented what I said. The question is why?
I mean, you currently have Trump in the white house. He seems to be setting the stage for a tyrannical government that controls freedom of speech. His followers call for violence against those who dont agree. Its at this point you should be asking yourself, are you glad you have weapons to defend yourself if this orange buffoon comes knocking on your door to take away your citizenship and send you to a 3rd world prison for the crime of wrong think?
The question then becomes, was the few deaths every year a price worth paying for that protection? Its up to each of you to answer that question. There is no wrong answer.
The actual more important question is how can you have that protection, while at the same time lowering the amount of gun related deaths every year. But for some weird fucking reason, both sides want an all or nothing solution. No room for compromise, just anger and hate.
Also, lets see you get dogpiled and not just give up and start telling people to fuck off.
As a non American, I don’t understand how this longer quote is any different from what was said by the person you are replying to.
Also “God given right” to have guns? That’s a crazy statement.
Im not American, and I can see the difference between “paying a price for a greater good/convenience” and “Fuck them kids!”.
God given right to have guns is a crazy statement. I certainly hope youre not thinking that Im defending the man? Im only holding him to account for his actual words, not the heavily edited ragebait that being passed around social media. What he actually said was enough. Its probably also worth noting the “god given rights” he was talking about was freedom. Hes talking about the people having a means(guns) to protect themselves from a government that would rob them of freedom.
An example of this would be Ukraine making a deal with Russia that they wouldnt have nukes. In exchange, Russia said they would never invade…
You keep calling it “rage bait” to quote him, but I think that’s missing a big aspect of this. The man was very intentionally phrasing these things in ways that he knew would upset people who didn’t agree with him. There’s a whole culture around that on the far right, where you’re supposed to say things that would enrage “the left” because that’s how people know you’re “based” and not “woke.” And obviously he’s not worried about people being offended because anyone who would be offended isn’t his target audience, while people who are his target audience will get a dopamine hit from hearing him offend those other people. It’s win-win for him. So with the thing about the pilots, he knows full well that the standards are the same, but he also knows that his audience are going to be sympathetic to the idea of being uncomfortable around black people, so the facts be damned, he’s gonna pretend that’s a rational argument against DEI.
So I don’t think it’s the clip videos that are the “rage bait” here. I think that’s part and parcel of the whole Charlie Kirk idiom.
Its all ragebait, mate. Left, right, doesnt matter. Media, both social and mainstream, wants your engagement. And there no better way to do that than rage. The brown man who just got off the boat and raped a young girl, the blue haired landwhale who said “all men are rapists by design!”, Charlie Kirk said black people suck, etc etc etc etc. Its all ragebait, all the time. Anything to keep you engaged, and them making money off of you.
He is literally saying he thinks a few deaths a year are worth it. Not to mention we have a school shooting every 3 weeks in the country. And if he were asked about the one that happened the day he was killed, do you suppose he’d use his platform to demand better gun safety laws? How about the one from 2 weeks ago, and the day before that, and the last 300 months. Just curious which of those he wrote his pal Donny and demanded better gun laws.
Yes, its worth a few deaths to have the ability to defend yourselves against a shit government. What about that isnt fucking clear?
Gun safety laws are why I DONT AGREE WITH HIM!!! Im not arguing his point, I dont agree with him. Im saying that what he said want “Fuck them kids!”, which is what all of you are saying he said.
I know you want the worthless uparrows, but for fucks sake.
I didnt say any of them were fine in context. My point was, that the context made each quote mean a different thing. Rather than just being blanket statements about race or gender or whatever.
Hate the man for who he was, not for what some ragebait heavily edited clip told you he was.
This is who he was.
No, it wasnt. Thats the point of context. You want to hate him, I have no issue with that. I dont really like him either. But the difference between us is that I hate him for who he actually was, you hate him based on twitter posts that were meant to monetise your outrage. We are not the same.
the difference between us is that I hate him for who he actually was, you hate him based on twitter posts that were meant to monetise your outrage. We are not the same.
yeah you’re some child, who’s obsessed with someone getting something that they may have not earned, because you say so.
or you’re an adult who’s blaming their mediocre life on minorities getting opportunities.
either way it’s just sad.
Im not doing either of those things, but whatever you need to tell yourself to make yourself feel like youre winning at something…
So brave of you.
Yeah, posting the context of someones words is really weird. Better to just let you all have your circlejerk based on lies and well placed edits… Jesus fucking christ, you people are so fucking weird. Getting angry at being fact checked. You know who does that…
Is this a picture of you??? Cos it who you all sound like, when you get angry at being fact checked.Sure. Show me the full context, where before saying that Clarence Thomas was a greater man than MLK Jr he says, “I’m going to list out a few examples of statements which, if you ever hear someone say after a blow to the head, mean they should go to the hospital right away. Number one:”.
I never said everything he said was good. In fact, I said it wasnt.
I dont know about the Clarence Thomas quote, but I know he said the same about Ben Carson… Which is a big yikes, Im sure you’ll agree.
Sitting in a tent labeled “prove me wrong” in the US while arguing against gun control is just… well, let’s just say the only disqualifying thing for him is actually the fact he has children.
If someone can prove they’re not his then we may have a winner.
Edit their - > they’re
