If I’m remembering the original sysntesis for insulin used dogs, and it was harvest from them after being killed. It’s unjust that insulin is so expensive, but also modern production methods are not the problem here. It’s greed.
At least you can buy a human for only $85.21!
Lots of missing data in there, but gotta love Turkey’s $2.56.
Shoutout to the uninsured cost of the medication I need to live
(90 tablets)
Does anyone really need to live? What you need is to be producing value for your company!
/S
Also I just remembered, I used to have United Healthcare and they didn’t cover this medicine so I had to switch. Had to pay ~$300 for that refill (i think it was fewer tablets and 75mg that time). $40 on my current insurance.
Anyway I’m a big Luigi fan
yuck, did you use optum health? they are owned BY UHG.
Using Aetna currently. That is good to know though
A patient cured, a customer lost. A dead customer, just a cost of business.
^ Say “for profit medicine” (oxymoron btw), behind closed doors.
Is there any reason a diabetic has to get the newer patented formulas instead of the old one that the pic talks about which is regularly sold for around $25 a vial in the US without insurance?
I know the new stuff works faster and you don’t have to worry about your diet as much so I’m sure it’s much easier, but why would you have to die instead of just managing your diet and using the $25 stuff for a month in this emergency situation?
Don’t get me wrong all medicine should be free and stuff but like, why die instead of switching to the cheap stuff and dietary management for a month?
Insulin is not permanently shelf stable, and will still expire in the fridge.
Diabetics usually start with a long-acting insulin to keep blood sugar from naturally rising plus a fast-acting insulin for corrections and to compensate for food.
The old style of just giving 2 long-acting shots of mixed insulin is mostly obsolete, except for legacy patients, some pregnant patients, and other special cases I can only theorize.
A good number of diabetics only use fast acting insulin in a pump, receiving microdoses every minute.
To switch brands of insulin, much less therapies in any circumstance requires a doctor’s visit.
With all that said, the insurance company will often replace a medication in the event of an accident, typically only once a year.
Without that, a patient might be able to find a charity they will assist them.
You also may be able to travel to the next state over where the cost of insulin is regulated.
Failing all other options, it is better to check yourself in to the hospital as your sugar begins to rise and tell them that you cannot control your blood sugar.
The subs would be R and NPH, not the old mixed formulas like 70/30.
Ah well that’s good, at least there appears to be some options.
I’ve heard of clandestine labs making patented insulin and selling it cheap too, and I’m all for a good grey market.
Not sure about that, and not sure if I could trust that.
Another option is to have the doctor prescribe insulin pens or another brand of the same kind of insulin. It’s technically a different prescription and the insurance company usually covers it.
I don’t think I ever had insurance in the US where checking into the hospital for any amount of time would cost less than $800 out of pocket.
Unless I had already reached my annual deductible, that is.
Unless I had already reached my annual deductible, that is.
“Hey good news! After about 35% of your annual income is spent on medical bills on top of your triple digit monthly premiums… That health insurance starts to kick in!”
(Until it resets at the end of the year. Teehee!)
The deductible system is ridiculous.
It truly is amazing how an entire industry makes billions by literally avoiding delivering the most basic service it’s paid for at every possible turn.
The extra ridiculous thing is how they deny services that a doctor says are medically necessary… and not even in a reasonable way, in an abusive way. Like the system that automatically denies 60,000 things an hour or whatever, and count on people wasting tons of time to challenge it. Or when they have an ophthalmologist review your kidney disease and say that some treatment isn’t warranted. And that’s even after you’ve paid your stupid deductible costs for the year.
This is not even good capitalism. Capitalism was intended to provide efficient solutions through competition. This is an oligopol secured by generous bribes
It’s no longer about saving money at that point.
People respond wildly differently to different types of insulin and it isn’t just a matter of switching and watching your diet. Too much and too little insulin can be deadly and it makes you feel like absolute shit.
Ah, so you’d need to know your dosage for that type beforehand, and if you didn’t know it you can’t just wing it. Still though, might be beneficial to know that for emergencies like this because it sounds preferable to certain death.
There should be a little chart your doc gives you at diagnosis (or something, spitballing here) that lays out the dosages you’d need for X, Y, and Z brands so that if say you use X and they’re out (or your kid freezes it or something) you can just consult the dosage chart and get Y for now.
I don’t think it’s a thing because even the same insulin analogue from different manufacturer can have different dosing
A unit is a unit, so the dosages are the same. What varies is onset curve and length of action, so timing.
The old formulas you can buy OTC for $25 are more inconvenient to use, but will indeed keep you from dying. The main difference between the R insulin and Novolog/Humalog are how quickly they act. Novolog starts lowering your glucose in about 60 minutes while the R takes 2 hours. Dietary management is not related to which insulin you’re using, at least for type 1. The long acting substitute, NPH, is a lot more difficult to use than Lantus though. It still works. I ran out of good insulin on a trip last year and had to sub the R and NPH and did have some issues with hypoglycemia. I’m more qualified to swap them on my own than many people though (lots of people are not informed enough to change their dosage without professional medical advice).
So yes, the claim that OOP’s only alternative to paying $800 was to die is not true.
Please support the Open Insulin Foundation who are creating an open source model for insulin production! Such an important project!
this feels a bit like open source software, just that the software involved is genetic code, which codes for a protein.
It is! They’re trying to “compile” insulin on the smaller scale. Not home labs but local production. They haven’t managed it yet but I believe they will eventually.
Is it free in grey countries?
Either that, or maybe they don’t have diabetes there. (Lol joking)
I can confirm, as a insured I am paying $0.00 for Insulin in Macedonia. Now I am receiving 6 Novo Nordisk Tresiba pens per month. How much is that in US?
I couldn’t find the answer easily myself and ended up asking AI, so take this with a significant grain of salt, but supposedly a 3mL pen would be around $145 without insurance. If anyone can find a better source, I’d be all ears.
1/5th cost just by driving to Canada.
Invented by a Canadian, exploited by an American.
How is it even possible to afford $800 for insulin? It boggles the mind
Credit cards
US Healthcare = pay or die
US hEAlthcare.
Pay a monthly subscription fee, and additional microtransactions every time you get rejected.
Oh, it’s not that good.
It’s “Pay until you run out of money and can no longer take on more debt. Then die.”
Let yourself be captured by the ICE, so they expel you for free to a civilised country.
Civilized countries don’t run camps for ICE.
It’s yet another thing to force the riff-raff to work any job for any pay.
Can’t have people refusing to do disgusting or even life-long disabling jobs for peanuts.
See also “housing costs”.
You forgot the middle step, vote for republicans to perpetutate the situation, and then die.
Why can’t Americans mail order it from Canada? Is the US going to tax the crap out of it when it crosses the border?
Yes they will absolutely fuck you on it IF they even allow it at all.
You know, in the spirit of “free markets” and all that bull shit.
people have been crossing to canada for cheap insulin drugs, the same one made by the trioply insulin companies via driving. other healthcare options, like dental work or medical procedures, they will be seeking places like thailand, mexico, india(the cities that cater to medical tourism)
These god damn foreigners crossing the border to leech of developed countries. They really need to put that wall up.
couple of reddit threads suggest that this is something you can do, but you have to be evasive around american border guard later if you go in person
Fuck.
What website would we mail order it from?
I believe there are some restrictions on mailing insulin across the border due to regulations and customs laws. However, there might be ways around it if you’re willing to do a little research and possibly pay extra fees.
I genuinely think that in some third world countries, as part of the middle class, you can have a better life than in the USA.
There’s a reason countries like Vietnam are so popular with digital nomads.
My dream would be to get a remote nightshift job and live in a house by the beaches of south Thailand
Something I’ve noticed is when untraveled people in the USA try to contextualize themselves with other countries they pick the worst examples they can think of. Favelas in Brazil or slums in South Africa for example. We do this to the point where our entire conception of countries (or in the case of Africa, continents) is the worst imagery we can think of. I think they genuinely don’t believe that, for all their troubles India, Brazil, Mexico, Nigeria, etc also have smartphones and big buildings and libraries and universities and laboratories, and educated people living decent lives.
They also can’t see how the overcrowded jails full of pretrial prisoners, the barefoot children carrying buckets for water in Appalachia, the rundown schools full of illiterate kids, the impunity of rich private interests, the corrupt sheriffs and judges, and on and on, puts us in the company of the “third world countries”. Yes we have nice places too, but SO DO THEY. A broken society in the 21st century isn’t people living in mud huts, it’s children shitting in the street next to a glass skyscraper with LEED Platinum certification.
And it’s not just “overcrowded jails full of pretrial prisoners, the barefoot children carrying buckets for water in Appalachia” but the grad students in LA living out of their cars, or grandpa sleeping on a bus stop, or people in the Rockies surviving off roadkill and forage.
Seattle tent cities/tiny homes make some Favelas look real swanky.
It’s also much harder to become a middle class in those countries.
Not really. Poverty rates are higher, yes, but many middle income third world countries do have sizeable and growing middle classes. They’re called developing countries for a reason. The image of war-torn African countries where everyone works in mines isn’t really representative.
Logically, it’s not about how much money you make, it’s about purchasing power. It is irrelevant if you earn only $400 a month when you can eat well for $1 and pay $100 for your housing, you have free health care and education. That is the reality in some third world countries.
Third world doesn’t mean poor, it just means not aligned with US or Russia
If you can eat well for $1 then it is definitely a poor country relative to the US. Differences in purchasing power are a direct result of differences in wealth.
I think that the US is a third world country, it’s rich but most money is used for weapons and to make richer the billonairs and big corporations, in the social and cultural sphere, it is one of the most backward in the world. Now with Trump the US is turning in a running gag for the most countries. A country where 40 milloncof citizen don’t have enough to eat at least 2 times a day, isn’t a rich country.
Usa is the hub of first world. Russia is the second. Thirds is everyone else.
USA is an total dystopic country, any Banana Republic has more culture. US is only powerfull because use all the money for weapons, developed by foreigner scientifics. First world is anything else.
You will say that the US is a first world country, it’s better for your health
I really should just put a full block on lemmy.ml. Thanks for the reminder!
It used to mean that. First World was US aligned (or at least US friendly), Second World was Soviet aligned, Third World was not aligned
Now though, First World means developed nations, Third World means poor nations, Second World has fallen out of use
Only to those ignorant of it’s meaning. Developing nations is what people mean. Like people say third world, third to what? What’s first and second?
Spain isn’t third world, it already had shown the middle finger to Trump and also has few to do with Rusia. Third world countries don’t certainly mean people starving, the people there often have all what they need, but this, you’ll see few Ferraries there and chalets with swimming pool. Someone is rich, not necesarly because a lot of money, but because he need only few. We often enter in a rabbit hole of the consumism, spending a lot of money in things we really don’t need, we work like a dog to have enough money to pay a journey to Hawaii to recover us from the burnout, which we wouldn’t have working less, no needing this journey.
Have you been to Spain? I’m not saying it is not better than where the US is headed to, but it’s a “western” country in Europe, with all the issues that come with it. Somewhat social market economy, but still suffering from the usual issues, including people driving Ferraris while others sleep on the street.
Also, at least since Franco I don’t think anyone genuinely thinks of Spain as third world.
Well, I’m from Spain, also in Spain there are People with Ferraries (few) and also poor people, but there is nobody without food, because Spain has a strong social system and free healthcare for everyone. Nothing, absolute nothing to do with the US, it’s the opposite in almost everything. Luckily Spain has also little dependency on the US or Rusia, so it is also not much affected by Trumps Tariffs or Rusian Gaspolicy. Trump hates Spain.
Espousing an old no longer relevant definition to sound smarter and be “right” is peak lemmy/reddit behavior. Third world does mean poor now.
It doesn’t. It never did.
It does. Strictly it does. Why do you think china is no longer considered third world?
Strictly, technically every other way China is still third world. This concept of third world being poor seems to have originated from the common charity ads in the 90s and 2000s who loved the phrase, and from the American exceptionalism that thinks everything not American is dirty and poor.
Being poor is the only way a country is third world or not. Being politically related to America is not relevant to the present definition. So no, it is not “technically in every other way”. It just is not a third world country, period.
No one really uses that word in its Cold War context anymore. It’s the common term for “developing countries” and the like.
People believe that only because they haven’t learned what it actually means.
You’re right that they either never learned what 1st-2nd-3rd world really means, or they forgot what they were taught in history class. Unfortunately it still is the main term to refer to poor countries even though it’s incorrect. Language seems to be biased towards the common meaning over the technically correct meaning.
When you kill the wealthy and their enforcers, you should be shouting “blood for blood”.
Since we’re roleplaying you should also say “skulls for the skull throne.”
No. They kill us. They murder people. Make it clear why this is happening, why any negotiation starts with every billionaire shot in the gut and left to bleed out, as a compromise.
I hope you understand anonymity is an illusion and that intelligence agencies and law enforcement can use these kinds of comments as a justification to get ALL up in your shit. This kind of performative “we got a badass over here” act is not really impressing anyone here, and it could get you in massive trouble.
This isn’t the internet’s backwater. There are bots crawling through these comments right now looking for and flagging users.
Theyll do that anyway…
my plan is to die in the water wars in 3-5 years.
You seem to think any of those people are competent. They generally are not. The fear, the obedience, is why they can control hundreds of millions with a few thousand thugs. Fuck your obedience.
Don’t forget to attach metal spikes to your black lacrosse gear and matching trencoat.
I was more planning to get shot in the head as a bystander somewhere, but maybe nestle will try to recruit me or something, idk.
In Canada it is still considered expensive, but not even close to $800/month. It’s only considered expensive because most shit like that is free or a very nominal fee, but repeated need is what it is.
I’m not diabetic and the situation with insulin fills me with a white hot rage.
Same
the OOC might be TYPE 1 which is even more dependant on insulin than type 2, because you’re pancreas cant make any insulin at all. plus there also other expenses that comes with being type 1. CGM, INSULIN pumps(which are often regularly replaced because they wear out). you can sometimes tell when someones type 1, if they have a device attached to thier arm, its usually a circular button, thats the sensor(its another cost)
The sensor is no guarantee. Quite a few low carb dieters use constant glucose monitors (CGMs) to identify which foods they should avoid
I’m sure they’re Type 1. At least with Type 2 you can kind of manage it a little without the meds. The insurance company should be firebombed for refusing to replace the damaged meds.
If he wanted it to be freely available, why did he even sell the patent ? Just disclaim at the patent office. Selling is just asking the new holder to start enforcing.
They sold the patent to the University of Toronto, so they didn’t exactly sell it to a for-profit patent troll.
But also, that was in 1923, so the patent has long since expired.
I mean, that’s better than selling to a private person, still feels weird, since disclaiming a patent is absolutely possible, and has a 100% chance of leading to the desired outcome, vs whatever small chance there may be that the University starts taking profits on it. Or even just sees themselves forced to sell the patent, because of potential financial issues.
Yeah, the risk is small, but eliminating it in it’s entirety would’ve been easily possible, so it just feels a bit weird he didn’t do it.
I never heard of disclaiming a patent until just now. Maybe he didn’t know about or it didn’t exiat in the 1920’s
Remember, the 1920s is long ago. Giving the patent to the equivalent of a non-profit organisation was probably better than disclaiming it, since it’s easier to have one large, well-known entity that will fight off people trying to re-patent it than to disclaim it and hope that no patent clerk ever lets a fraudulent re-patent go through.
In 1920 you couldn’t just google for prior art when fighting a fraudulent patent.
Ok, that is a fair point I hadn’t previosuly considered. Though disclaiming a patent doesn’t loose you all legal recourse.
If someone else tries to repatent it, even if it gets approved, you can still file a challenge against the new patent with the PTO. You (or anyone else, really) would also have a virtually guaranteed court win, even if someone got the patent through and tried to enforce it. All you’d have to prove in court is that prior art of the invention exists, therefore the patent is invalid and unenforceable, granted or not, so it’s unlikely someone would even bother trying to enforce such a patent. A previous, diclaimed patent, of literally the identical technology being on record is pretty iron clad and unavoidable evidence that the patent isn’t original.
Nowadays you just google for other patents and done. But back then, I guess that searching for prior art was quite a lot more difficult. Gifting the patent to an university so that they defend open access to the patent sounds like a more reliable plan.
I mean, even nowadays patents are greenlit my patent offices even though there’s clear prior art (Nintendo’s recent patent for catching monsters in a ball in a game comes to mind, which Nintendo would have to have patented before publishing their first game with that mechanic around 30 years ago), and even today it’s really difficult and expensive to get such a clear nonsense patent invalidated.
So difficult that e.g. Palworld opted to change the mechanic instead of fighting the patent.
So I do understand why someone would instead gift the patent to an university under the condition that they keep access to it open, especially 100 years ago.
That logic applies identically to a valid patent. For the issues you mention, there is no distinction between the patent being filed at the PTO and still valid, or being filled at the PTO and disclaimed. In terms of the enforcibility, and patentability of a ““new”” inventions with prior art, there is no legal distinction whatsoever between the prior art being a disclaimed or a valid patent, so I don’t think that’s a valid reason to not disclaim it.
Anyone who wants to repatent the process and harass people using it, would have an equally hard/easy time doing so, if the patent is disclaimed or valid.
The only real legal distinction between a disclaimed and valid patent is that the orignal patent holder can’t enforce the disclaimed one. And since that was the intended goal here, disclaimment feels like the obvious best choice.
That logic applies identically to a valid patent.
The difference is that in the case of transferring the patent to the university, there’s a legal department at the ready to defend the patent. The same is not the case for a disclaimed patent.
They also don’t make insulin the way that he did back then. Not justifying the price hike cause the way its made now is way cheaper than it was with the old method (which was basically grinding up animal parts to extract insulin). These fucks are just profiting off of the suffering of Americans who have literally no choice but to use their drug.
