I’m all for it, but what kicked it off?

  • Bosht@lemmy.worldEnglish
    581·
    1 天前

    So I infrequently use Imgur and basically a user got banned for saying ‘kill all nazis’ and another user’s post got taken down that had anti-nazi rhetoric. This is the most recent of a few scenarios where the mods have been seen as incompetent or overall shitty and so the community revolts. Honestly kinda dig it, at least they can coordinate and show a unified front…granted it’s slacktivism to a point but it gets people’s attention? Idk how I feel about it honestly.

    • BeardededSquidward@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      10·
      1 天前

      People talk of Imgur being a leftist echo chamber. I have had more than enough neoliberal types on there argue about the benefits of capitalism to me or that we shouldn’t have worker solidarity. I feel when these events happen, it’s part legitimately pissed of users but a lot of people just riding the up vote wagon.

      • MajorasTerribleFate@lemmy.zip
        701·
        1 天前

        The social contract of tolerance doesn’t extend to those who are intolerant. They are outside the protection of Tolerant Society’s protection, and the Tolerant are free (and, in fact, strongly encouraged) not to tolerate them, because they aren’t covered.

        • Bgugi@lemmy.world
          34·
          1 天前

          That view is fine and dandy with an an omniscient lens of who’s the reactionary intolerant and who is the originator of intolerance.

          • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
            7·
            1 天前

            Group A: “I am intolerant of (group) because they need to go back to their own country and not live in mine.”

            Group B: “I am intolerant of (group) because they don’t tolerate other ethnicities.”

            This guy: “but who was intolerant first?”

            • vas@lemmy.ml
              5·
              1 天前

              Wrong question. It doesn’t matter who was “first”.

              If the first group stops, the problem is gone.
              If the second group stops, the problem is not gone but likely growing.

              • Bgugi@lemmy.world
                23·
                24 小时前

                You both completely miss the argument. Cile is strawmanning, vas is again viewing from the omniscient or opposing viewpoint.

                Virtually all intolerants perceive themselves as victims. Permitting “intolerance of intolerance” is just accelerationist, “might makes right” ideology.

          • agent_nycto@lemmy.world
            2·
            1 天前

            I’d argue he isn’t tolerating white supremacy, he’s found a good way to counteract it. If he tolerated it he wouldn’t do anything.

            • SirEDCaLot@lemmy.today
              3·
              24 小时前

              It’s BY tolerating it (or more specifically, the people who espouse it) that he fights it.

              And I think that’s the key difference- tolerating intolerance (the action), vs tolerating the intolerant (the people).

              I think we would all (probably including Mr. Davis) agree that the action of intolerance should not be tolerated. For example, if a local movie theater wants to have ‘whites only’ movie nights, that should not be tolerated and in fact we should all aggressively fight back against such things wherever they happen.

              But what of the intolerant person? What of the theater owner in the above example? Should we run him out of town? Tar and feather him? Refuse to talk to him?
              The KKK folks he encountered are used to intolerance- threats, shouting, protests, etc. They know they’re not popular, but that helps feed the belief that they are right. They’re used to it. They’re NOT used to being welcomed by anti-racists.

              And thus Mr. Davis got through to the racist- by tolerating the intolerant, not by tolerating intolerance. It’s a subtle but vital difference.

              • agent_nycto@lemmy.world
                2·
                10 小时前

                There’s two wolves in me. One ages with this and the other says nazi punks fuck off and thinks they should be punched.

                • SirEDCaLot@lemmy.today
                  1·
                  8 小时前

                  I think that’s called conflict exhaustion. You’re sick of fighting, sick of holding your nose and respecting things and people you find repugnant, while there’s little/no serious progress in your direction, it seems like there’s more racism and hatred than ever. So part of you is ready to set the world on fire if it gets rid of MAGA and all the thinly veiled (or not so thinly veiled) racism and intolerance.

                  Just keep in mind that the dark wolf actually serves those nazi punks. Punching them only makes them stronger.

          • Cethin@lemmy.zipEnglish
            2·
            1 天前

            I don’t know that he didn’t get it. He just hadn’t a different method of fighting back. Not everyone is going to be able to go around knocking them out. The vast majority of people won’t in fact. There are still other tools they can use to stop the spread, or, in rare cases, reverse it. You have to be careful to not legitimize it though if you’re doing something like that.

            • SirEDCaLot@lemmy.today
              3·
              23 小时前

              This thread got me thinking a little more about Mr. Davis.

              We talk about ‘not tolerating intolerance’ but I think there’s a second level-- there’s the intolerance (the actions of the racist), and then there’s the intolerant (the racists themselves). It’s easy and simple to group the two together- we don’t want racism, we don’t want the KKK, we don’t want KKK members, all of you go fuck yourselves with your burning cross and go die in a fire (preferably in another county).

              I don’t think Mr. Davis would tolerate intolerance any more than you or I. But I think what he does is tolerate the intolerant person, engage them in conversation, treat them like a human being. And THAT can help fix intolerance- by reaching out to the intolerant people and trying to bring them into the larger community and heal them, rather than shunning them and reinforcing their stereotypes.

              • Cethin@lemmy.zipEnglish
                2·
                21 小时前

                Yep, and it has the potential to be very effective. I think we need both of these —punching Nazis and talking with them to change their views.

                Another big issue that goes with this is a lot of people will say that if their were bigots once then they should be shunned. This is very harmful though. If we do that then their only reasonable option is to double down. If they lose their group and also can’t be accepted by the rest of society then they’re never going to do that.

                I think this problem is much larger than only this right now too. People make their opinions equal to them as a person. They feel if they change their opinion then they’re failing as a person. This isn’t true though. Changing your opinions when you’re shown new information is a sign of strength.

          • YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.todayEnglish
            141·
            1 天前

            I really love that story. He is a better person than me. I really wish I still had hope for my fellow man like he does, but trump’s second election fucking broke me. People who I used to think were smart and empathetic were jumping on the “fuck your feelings” bandwagon.

            I’ve lost hope. I’ve lost love. I only have anger anymore.

            • SirEDCaLot@lemmy.today
              5·
              23 小时前

              People who I used to think were smart and empathetic were jumping on the “fuck your feelings” bandwagon.

              I don’t know your friends. But I’d argue there’s at least some reasoning for this.
              If trade policies like globalization have harmed your economic status, offshoring a lot of the jobs you’d previously held, and you were having trouble feeding your family, wouldn’t you vote for the person you thought could fix this? Wouldn’t you say ‘fuck your feelings, I need to feed my family so I’m sorry if you have trouble putting the sex you want on your passport I’m more worried about feeding my family’? At least in concept?

              I think that’s where a lot of that sentiment came from. The people of the nation are hurting, and part of Trump’s message always was ‘I see you hurting and I want to fix it’. Dems are totally tone deaf in their messaging. A huge % of the populace gets left out of the ‘American Dream’ and they say nothing. And in recent years they focus a lot on social justice issues and identity politics while ignoring the elephant in the room. It’s why those good people are saying fuck your feelings (IMHO at least), because if the choice is your feelings or their livelihood, then of course they’ll tell your feelings to shove off.

              Of course it didn’t work out that way- government cutbacks, tariffs, foreign policy, all handled in such a ham-fisted non-strategic way that whatever benefit might have been gained was instead lost. And now it’s the little guy suffering, so you see a lot of people renouncing their votes.

              All I’m saying is keep in mind some of those people who said ‘fuck your feelings’ thought they were fighting for a greater good. I don’t believe they turned malicious. Some did I’m sure, but not all of them.

                • SirEDCaLot@lemmy.today
                  3·
                  22 小时前

                  No worries my friend. I know it’s hard, but it’s useful to always assume good faith.

                  “The monster never sees a monster in the mirror. We all have good reasons and justifications for what we do.” – J. Michael Straczynski

                  That applies to us too.

                  I think it especially applied in 2016, first time in my life that all pretense of respectful debate went away, replaced with ‘unfriend me if you like Trump’ as a mainstream accepted even encouraged position to have.
                  I talk to a lot of people who supported Trump. Most of them talked about tariffs, manufacturing, jobs, there was a dream of bringing back American industry and rolling back outsourcing. Yes there was some assholes, but there were plenty of good American folks who just wanted to keep their jobs.
                  But if you listened to Democrats, the only valid reason anyone would vote for Trump is because they are a tiki torch wielding racist misogynist sexist xenophobic islamophobic basket of deplorables. The public discourse broke down for good, it was all just insults from both sides.

                  Nobody saw a monster in the mirror. We only saw an opposition supporting a guy who was basically openly racist and creeped on his own daughter.
                  But they didn’t see a monster in the mirror either. They only saw an ivory tower elite whipping ourselves into a frenzy over which bathroom someone uses while the middle class is dying.

                  That’s why, in my opinion at least, it is always vitally important to generally assume good faith on the part of your opposition. Because if there is good faith, then we repair the cracks that are dividing the country. And if there really isn’t good faith, then we are all totally fucked anyway so it doesn’t make any goddamn difference.

          • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
            5·
            1 天前

            Do the Nazis ever claim they are intolerant of minorities because the minorities were intolerant to them?

            • Bgugi@lemmy.world
              1·
              1 天前

              Unironically yes? Replacement theory, blood libel, global elitism… Whatever the angle, lots of -isms expouse roots in victimhood.

  • EntropyPure@lemmy.world
    3501·
    2 天前

    Somebody was banned for posting the GIF of the Nazi Guy getting knocked out (you know the one).

    The community is not having it.

    • Tanis Nikana@lemmy.world
      1492·
      2 天前

      Every time I walk past that stretch near Pike and 3rd in Seattle, right over that bit of concrete where the nazi got laid the fuck out, I punch the air. Every time.

    • dumbass@piefed.socialEnglish
      1·
      1 天前

      The one that gets its tooth knocked out?

      Man I love that clip, you can live vicariously through it for a second.

    • sbird@sopuli.xyzEnglish
      26·
      2 天前

      No wonder. Some rich guy must have got very upset. Strange though, plenty of people get punched all the time, and there are plenty more GIFs people getting punched. Banning specifically the Nazi guy getting punched isn’t good PR I think…

    • yermaw@sh.itjust.works
      4102·
      2 天前

      That video always makes me uncomfortable because I dont know the actual context. Maybe he was in Halloween fancy dress?

      Yes fuck nazis, but I dont know in my bones the person deserved it.

        • yermaw@sh.itjust.works
          337·
          2 天前

          Or a movie prop. Or a weird stag night. Or a mentally ill person unaware of the severity of the joke. Or theres a gunman behind the camera making him put the armband on. Or digitally altered before release. Or the list goes on.

          What you think you see “Nazi scum punished”

          What you actually saw “man gets punched”

          Im lowkey shook fr how easily #2 becomes #1. Again, I’d like to point out I’m all for nazis getting fucked up.

          • village604@adultswim.fanEnglish
            121·
            1 天前

            Fuck off, Nazi sympathiser. You’re literally inventing reasons to justify proudly wearing the symbol of hate and genocide.

          • IWW4@lemmy.zip
            231·
            2 天前

            If it is a movie prop than the person stays on the lot. There is no stag night justification, mental illness ok…

            But you are reaching.

            There are certain things you never choose to do. Pretending to be be a Nazi is one of them.

            • yermaw@sh.itjust.works
              521·
              2 天前

              So youre happy that you know based on a 2 second gif and it doesn’t even slightly worry you how easy it is? Maybe it was cut to only show the good bit, but maybe its been cut to rob you of any context.

              We have the ability to make anything look like anything, and we’re cheering on violence based on a momentary flash of bad-guy logo, while being the same species that had literal witch- finders like a few generations ago.

              I’m more worried now, because instead of seeing the point I’m trying to make people seem to be assuming I’m defending nazis.

              • samus12345@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
                111·
                1 天前

                people seem to be assuming I’m defending nazis.

                You are normalizing them by defending a guy who chose to dress as one in public.

                • yermaw@sh.itjust.works
                  39·
                  1 天前

                  Listen it took 4 hours and 70 odd down arrows before anyone provided any actual information, and you people are still piling on.

                  Minimum 70 people. I dont have enough of a metaphysical language set to get the original point across, but there are lessons to be learned here for all of us.

          • rumba@lemmy.zipEnglish
            61·
            1 天前

            Did you just really ignore monuments comment two above?

            I guess we know where your sympathies land

      • Monument@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
        23·
        1 天前

        The sources for this video indicate the person wearing the armband:

        • Harassed a black man on a bus.
        • Walked around downtown Seattle for an hour dressed that way.
        • Had several verbal confrontations with passerby who commented on his clothing.
          Source 1

        • Several 911 calls were placed about this man attempting to instigate fights.
        • The man declined to file a police report after the police did appear.
          Source 2

        For at least an hour at any point leading up to this, the person wearing the armband could have taken it off and stopped interacting with others. To my knowledge, the person who was punched has never spoken to media to explain why they were dressed as such, despite the massive internet fame of the video.

        Do you still feel uncomfortable? Do you know in your bones if the person deserved it?

        • yermaw@sh.itjust.works
          311·
          1 天前

          In this specific case im happy enough thanks for that. Thats actually cheered me up a little.

          I’m not sure if I’ll ever truly get there, think I’ll be a little more comfortable joining the mob without context next time. This is the most consistent engagement I’ve ever had on this site and I think ive learned a thing or two here.

          • Monument@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
            9·
            1 天前

            Well, don’t join the mob blindly. Do your own research. The above information was gathered from one internet search using the available context clues from this post.
            It did not take very long and was easy.

      • Diddlydee@feddit.ukEnglish
        15·
        2 天前

        Fancy dress? That’s a stretch. Usually in fancy dress you’re imitating someone. Who is he meant to be? Just a generic Nazi.

        • jol@discuss.tchncs.de
          39·
          2 天前

          Yeah, I think you should cosplay as a nazi the same way we wear fake guns. You better make it abundantly clear that it’s a toy/costume.

          • Maestro@fedia.io
            344·
            2 天前

            Someone I know cosplays as a Nazi. He doesn’t walk around the streets wraring an armband. He goes in full military gear, riding around on an original WWII german bike with sidecar at WWII historic events. You know, like a cosplayer.

            • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              93·
              2 天前

              If true, then the person you know is a loser and someone should beat the shit out of them.

              It doesn’t matter how authentic it is if you’re cosplaying as a fucking Nazi.

              • Soulg@ani.socialEnglish
                11·
                1 天前

                Do it yourself then tough guy

                Literally know nothing about the person, that doesn’t make them a Nazi lol

                • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                  3·
                  1 天前

                  People like you are the reason why the US is a fascist nation now. Giving literal Nazis the benefit of the doubt over and over because they say that “it’s just a joke” or whatever.

        • yermaw@sh.itjust.works
          618·
          2 天前

          I think it more reminds me how easily influenced we can be. “Go find out” is great, but its not possible to research everything you see. Even if I did I’d only find other people talking about the video and would have no real way of discerning who actually knows what theyre talking about and who’s just making credible sounding shit up.

          Do you guys not feel that worry somewhere in your mind when you see things like this?

          • Feathercrown@lemmy.worldEnglish
            4·
            1 天前

            I mean, it’s not like me enjoying the video is going to affect the guy who got punched. I think it’s good that as a society we support videos that appear to show Nazi cosplayers being punched and don’t give them the benefit of the doubt. If I were actually there IRL and able to affect the outcome, I would also be able to ask for the necessary information to determine what to do.

          • angrystego@lemmy.world
            9·
            2 天前

            You’re allowed, but surely you’d be aware enough not to walk in your costume outside the set. The same goes for theatre or anything. An actor who thinks it’s a good idea to walk outside in a nazi costume has it coming, and that’s a good thing.

            • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              61·
              2 天前

              Don’t even engage with such a bullshit attempt at deflecting. Look, they’ve already got you talking about a bullshit hypothetical that they literally just made up whole cloth

              • Soulg@ani.socialEnglish
                4·
                1 天前

                There’s no deflecting, a stupid statement was made and the stupidity of it is being demonstrated.

          • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
            131·
            2 天前

            The number of people willing to provide cover, and give the benefit of the doubt to people dressing as, and behaving like literal Nazis is too damn high. I’m seeing it everywhere on here lately.

            “I don’t know anything about the thing you guys are talking about, but what if he was dressed like that because he’s an actor in a movie?”

            Really?

            • quick_snail@feddit.nl
              44·
              1 天前

              Oh, I’m not defending a specific instance. I’m merely pointing out that there does exist a time and place where people should be allowed to dress as despicable characters from history

        • hungryphrog@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          19·
          2 天前

          Also, in the one scenario where I would find dressing up as a nazi acceptable, which is if they’re an actor for a movie/show/play that requires nazi characters, they are not going to just put an armband on their everyday modern clothing.

          They’ll wear a proper reconstruction of an actual nazi uniform, and they’re not going to just walk around in that costume, they’re going to be on or around a set, which also gives any possible passerbys the context clues needed to understand that they’re just an actor, thus saving themselves from being punched.

        • vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works
          32·
          2 天前

          Fun fact I have a swedish tankers trench coat from 1940 and a Swiss helmet from 1942 when I wear them together it basically looks like legally distinct werhmacht. I can pull the samething with an American armor school long coat and a Yugoslav helmet for the Soviet equivalent.

          It’s technically not Nazi apparel. It annoys my friends though.

      • porcoesphino@mander.xyz
        613·
        2 天前

        Yeah, his hand coming up in a way that could be “this isn’t what you think” doesn’t help. The description makes the situation sound very different though and there’s not much of an excuse for the armband right now. But yeah, not a fan of the gif now I’ve seen it

      • rumba@lemmy.zipEnglish
        11·
        1 天前

        Consider:

        Someone is getting knocked the F out on camera.

        There is a crowd of people

        No one is stopping or diffusing the situation

        No one is stopping over the check on the fallen

        Then calculate it appears to be a guy wearing a nazi arm band

        then consider that it would be the shittiest idea for a halloween costume south of blackface and even wearing nazi garb would likely get you a rightful ass-kicking.

        There’s no math there that makes that even slightly questionable.

    • InfiniteGlitch@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      10·
      1 天前

      It just amazes me how to doing the Nazi salute, uniforms and speech’s are entirely okay now. However, being against it gets you banned.

      The world has gone a full circle and we are back to the days were fascism, hatred and all that is okay. Unfortunately.

      • DylanMc6 [any, any]@lemmy.mlEnglish
        6·
        1 天前

        we need socialism. we need to organize a lot more than ever. we need to be revolutionary optimists, and NOT give in to counterrevolutionary doom and gloom and defeatism. seriously!

    • zr0@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      121·
      1 天前

      Yeah and the community does not understand what it means to protect your audience from certain content. Violence is violence. At this point it does not matter who is who. But the community just had too much lead in the water and is unable to form their own thoughts, thus just follow the other sheep.

        • LogicalDrivel@sopuli.xyzEnglish
          20·
          2 天前

          I know it is, technically. I just never group Imgur into social media. Its always been just an image host in my mind.

          • [object Object]@lemmy.world
            3·
            21 小时前

            When I last used Imgur about ten years ago, they communicated exclusively in gifs and meme phrases. It’s a bit odd.

            But, when those browsing /new on Imgur had a mini-uprising and upvoted just anything for a day, weirdest and most outlandish stuff actually made it to the front page. That was the most fun I’ve ever had on a social-media site.

  • adry@piefed.socialEnglish
    17·
    2 天前

    they could be spamming that webcomic that explains “the paradox of tolerance” by k. popper ;) it would be very fitting to the ongoing situation.

    • adry@piefed.socialEnglish
      461·
      2 天前

      0wYYNuHYBXBoQoy.jpg

      PS. I couldn’t find a cleaner, high res. version and pictoline.com (listed there at the source) only has it in spanish. To make things even worse, there are many edited versions that replace nazis with other ideologies :/ f* the volatility of the internet… Oh. gotta search the internet archive… yeah, nope… not there either. Anyone can find a better version or knows the original source to this? else shall we try upscaling this JPG?

  • _stranger_@lemmy.world
    21·
    1 天前

    You know what? I don’t care what kicked it off. I don’t care if it’s a billionaire paying for bots. I’m just glad that the kind of people that get programmed by social media to vote for horrible shit might finally get programmed to do some good for a change.

  • madjo@feddit.nl
    58·
    18 小时前

    Earlier this week a user posted “kill Nazis” and got a warning from Imgur saying that imgur is an inclusive platform, welcome to everyone. (which apparently includes Nazis?)
    That’s what kicked this off (again).

    There was already some upset feelings in the community because at the beginning of the week one of the “Elbow Deep In A” accounts got suspended over a “Gone Mild” drawing of a goblin girl. So it didn’t take much for the community to be really upset with “business daddy”

    • agent_nycto@lemmy.world
      51·
      1 天前

      I wouldn’t call this propaganda. Propaganda is done deliberately and this seems to be a popular sentiment. Even if it’s a quirk of the algorithm (which I’m not sure these could be posted chronologically, imgur sometimes does that iirc) it’s still not deliberate.

      Why’d you start your comment with “heh” and end your comment with “sunshine”? Seemed creepy and condescending, and makes it seem like you feel that the backlash against Trump and White supremacy is just propaganda and not how people actually feel.

      • nagaram@startrek.website
        2·
        1 天前

        Personally, I view it as propaganda still, but I don’t view propaganda as bad inherently.

        Propaganda to me is just an organized effort to persuade a larger audience of people politically. Its only bad if the aims are harmful unjustly.

        So people organizing a take over to reiterate “No fucking Nazis!” Is a propaganda campaign, but its based.

      • SreudianFlip@sh.itjust.works
        2·
        1 天前

        Sam_Bass’s comments are mainly mildly contemptuous one-liners. Condescending is part of the persona, and when others interpret that manner as right wing, it seems to affirm sam’s misanthropy.

  • BigMacHole@sopuli.xyz
    47·
    1 天前

    Just because I have a Nazi tattoo and go to Nazi rallies and think ALL Jews and Minorities should die DOESNT make Me a NAZI! In FACT it makes YOU a Nazi!

    -Republicans!

  • ryannathans@aussie.zone
    534·
    2 天前

    The spam bots are out in full force. I have seen this spam everywhere I browse, in so many flavours and forms it’s exhausting

  • starlinguk@lemmy.world
    112·
    2 天前

    The top right picture needs “HH” added to it. It’s what people use on license plates. Used to be banned in Germany, but I saw one yesterday so I think My Little Nazi has unbanned it.

    • 🇰 🌀 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 🇮 @pawb.socialEnglish
      6·
      2 天前

      Wild. I saw a car here in California just the other day with an odd looking plate on some old dude’s hotrod that had a little “HH” off to one side that, here, just means it’s a historical vehicle used in classic car shows.

    • ristoril_zip@lemmy.zipEnglish
      2·
      1 天前

      see it’s interesting to me because I thought it was the way it looks like it should spin that matters, with the Buddhist one looking like it should spin clockwise and the Nazi one looking like it should spin counter clockwise. Is it the 45 degree tilt that makes the big difference?

    • palordrolap@fedia.io
      61·
      2 天前

      Explain please. All the ones I see in the image are shaped like four adjoined letter L’s which is the same way around that the Nazis used. Or are you referring to the fact that most of them aren’t stood on a corner, diamond-wise?

          • turmacar@lemmy.world
            4·
            1 天前

            Yes and no. The one the Nazis used was / is also a symbol used in Asia. (And really, everywhere. It’s a fairly basic pattern.) The Nazis used it because of their obsession with Aryans. Sometimes it’s at an angle, sometimes it’s not.

            Generally in the west, unless it’s on a statue of budda, any swastika-ish symbol since the ~1930s is going to be a reference to Nazis though.