It’s something I struggle with. Some bad news comes out about some public persona doing something shitty and they get cancelled. But sometimes I really struggle with giving up the things they’ve made because I like them. There are also occasions where the person has been accused of something and it doesn’t seem true to me, or I think they’re genuinely sorry and have been punished enough, and the context isn’t being considered.
What do you think? Who do you feel conflicted about enjoying?
I like the world building in Fifth Element and Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets. But Luc Besson is probably a rapist and certainly a sexual assaulter. I’ll watch his old stuff I already own but won’t put any more money towards it nor support any new projects.
Edit: oh, also he’s not “cancelled”. He came out with another movie this year or last, if I recall. 9 times our of 10, celebrities that say they were “cancelled” just had their feefees hurt by people on social media.
Also a pedo. From his wiki page:
Besson’s second wife was actress and director Maïwenn Le Besco, whom he started dating when he was 32 and she was 15 after having met three years earlier.[46] They married in late 1992 when Le Besco, 16, was pregnant with their daughter Shanna, who was born on 3 January 1993.[47][deprecated source] Le Besco later claimed that their relationship inspired Besson’s film Léon (1994), where the plot involved the emotional relationship between an adult man and a 12-year-old girl (played by then 12-year-old Natalie Portman).
So not only is he a pedo, but he was proud enough of it he made a movie about it.
Let’s consult the film’s plot:
Mathilda looks up to Léon and quickly develops a crush on him, often telling him she loves him, but he does not reciprocate.
The film: the adult rejects advances from the teen girl.
_cryptagion: “This must mean Besson is proud of his relation with formerly-teen wife”.
I don’t think the rich pedo needs you to defend him.
You can keep being stupid, I don’t give a shit. But it would be better if you didn’t impose your stupidity on others.
yeah ok, creep. I don’t talk to pedos, so I’m blocking you immediately.
It’s remarkable how a mention of what you call ‘pedo’ completely shuts down your feeble brain. A curious neurological phenomenon.
That knowledge makes the uncomfortableness in Léon so much worse…
Die Antwoord. The music tickles a particular part of my brain, but they’re accused of some truly heinous shit.
I have a weird interest in South African rock music. I would buy SA CD compilations on ebay and discogs Nd listen to all the cool SA bands. One of them had a track by an artist called Max Normal. The track fucking slapped. No one in the US has heard of these SA artists I listen to. One day I mention my interest to a coworker and he said something like “oh man, you should check out Die Antwood.” So, I did. I’m reading about Die Antwood and I had a holy fuck moment. They were the same artist on that compilation CD. They changed their name to Die Antwood. The artist of an obscure track on a compilation CD I have went on to become an internationally known artist. I also found out they are pretty shitty people. Life is crazy sometimes.
Do I dare ask? I have this sinking feeling it’s racism related…
I think Ninja told some girl he wanted to fuck her after he told her she looked like his daughter.
I don’t know about that but I saw something about how they just like, kept a kid? Like in a basement? From one of their videos
Typical dodgy celebrity stuff, support young artists get them high, rape…
And then there’s Racism, and exploiting kids
I think they were grooming young teens? Forget the details
I was talking about them in this thread because I’m also a fan, and I don’t believe a word that Tokkie said. I think they’re not great people but I think that’s all horseshit.
Anti-Flag.
Absolutely sucks who Justin Sane turned out to be, but the music the group made together are still absolute bangers.
Neil Gaiman. I’m afraid there won’t be a third season of Good Omens.
Tarantino.
I just know the guy’s a dickhole.
If you feel like you can only like things made by people who haven’t done anything wrong, ever, you’re left with Mr Rogers and that’s about it. Liking something someone made isn’t an endorsement of their actions or opinions. Unfortunately we live in a hyper capitalistic society so buying their stuff can help them with their shitty opinions, so don’t buy new Harry Potter stuff, but feel free to enjoy it.
Kurt Vonnegut and George Carlin were both amazing people that didn’t get exposed as monsters. They weren’t saints, like Mister Rogers, but they also did not have the advantage of being related to Captain America like Fred was.
Vektor released three progressively more amazing albums of prog thrash before their label dropped them after domestic abuse allegations against the frontman.
Infiltration was an amazing Street Fighter pro who was sometimes completely unstoppable and really fun to watch. At least until he also faced domestic abuse allegations. He got banned from some competitions, his sponsor dropped him, and he nearly completely disappeared. The situation also anecdotally sounds like it’s not just a case of “oh he beat his wife” and possibly was in a mutually abusive relationship. But a judge convicted him based on “a wrist injury and bruises” and that was basically the end of his career.
This is going to get buried, but I miss Bill Cosby, or rather my mental model of him before all that nastiness came out.
I mean, I didn’t throw out my Harry Potter boxed set just becsuse Rowling is a dumb fucking TERF. I just don’t continue buying shit she profits off of, and can see tons of questionable things in her work that I didn’t question before knowing her thoughts on things.
Doesn’t anything HP give her a cut?
It’s the reason HP is banned in this household.
i don’t blame you for your choice. she’s alive and using money from the franchise to actively fund initiatives that hurt people. but let me copy my comment from elsewhere in this thread (about Scott Adams and old Dilbert books)
hey, read the books you already own all you want. that doesn’t put anymore money in his pocket.
being “cancelled” doesn’t mean we stick our fingers in our ears and act like it didn’t happen. it just means being conscientious about funding the lives of people who are actively making the world a worse place.
this is a critical detail that I think people often miss
I feel conflicted about reading and writing Harry Potter fan fiction. The negative side is it draws attention to the franchise. The positive side is it helps people enjoy Harry Potter content without benefiting Rowling.
Getting rid of things you already had before it became known she was a transphobe doesn’t take the money away from her.
there is an argument to be made for preventing further money being made by giving it to someone who will otherwise buy it new, but then you also have to consider additionally exposure if you give it to someone who wouldn’t otherwise have bought it…
The Harry Potter universe is bigger than her to where we can love the universe for what it is and can cut her out easily.
Except for buying anything new. That’s not cutting her out.
I understand people’s feelings towards her, but to call her transphobic seems a bit harsh. She doesn’t show hatred for trans people, but a need to show that they are different than woman born as female. Although this might be ignorant in some ways. . . I don’t see it as a form of hatred or fear towards trans people. We as a society have a hard time looking at nuance.
Just because she doesn’t outright say I hate trans. People doesn’t mean that she uses her fame her money and her businesses to help incorporate and promote anti-trans policies in the UK and also promote those ideas in the world ideas that trans people aren’t people. How is that not the definition of hatred just in a different way you need to stop being so ignorant because you really are and I’m only saying that to help you open up to reality.
H.P. Lovecraft
Lovecraft was my first experience with seperating the artist and the work. Since then, I’ve had to deal with it frequently but eventually you get used to it.
Those books are wild.
Turns out that the author that popularized the horror of the alien and unknown was a racist and xenophobic putz. Who would have guessed?
I kind of think that Lovecraft was doing about the least-worst thing he could with his absolutely massive trove of neuroses and phobias, which definitely included racism and xenophobia.
He was convinced that the universe was chaotic and horrifying and that the only thing we could hold on to for stability was racial purity, and that’s pretty fucked up, but he turned those feelings into spooky stories about interdimensional space monsters, which is certainly a lot better than writing political tracts or trying to convince everyone that the Armenians are actually to blame for all of our problems.
Therapy would have been even better, but writing spooky stories was better than some of the very real alternatives that other people were exploring in the 19-teens and twenties.
Pogo. his music is so fucking good, but the guy is a homophobic piece of shit.
It always gets me that Matthew Broderick killed two people in a car crash and got off with a $100 fine. I love Ferris Bueller’s day off, and I think he’s really talented, but like this happened just after that movie, and he just did not seem to be held to account for it.
Kevin Spacey. He’s just such a good actor, I like every movie he’s in. The first season of House of Cards was amazing too.
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Bill Cosby is a monster, but his stand-up special “Himself” is a master class on comedic story-telling.
The only respect I’m ever going to give Bill Cosby, is how he stood up and criticized the black community for their ghetto-like behavior and how they continued blaming the white man for all of their problems. That took balls and only he could have done it because he’s black as well.
So uh I’m guessing that aligns with your beliefs. Please explain to me how white people didn’t fuck over black people? Obviously not all problems black people face are from white people, and obviously not ever single white person has fucked over a black person, but please explain how white people aren’t responsible for a lot of the problems black people go through right now please?
I’ve got a few pretty big counter examples of how they did right here that I’m sure you’d find interesting.
Excuse you? What I said did not speak of anything of what my beliefs are. You are just assuming in a baseless manner. That is in of itself, a huge problem with society today so thanks for being a demonstration of that problem.
Obviously not all problems black people face are from white people
So you went on this entire tirade of rambling and you say that snippet. How about you project some sources that example that little detail, instead of virtue-signaling the way that you have?
I bet you won’t. You’ll just take all of the virtuous self-patting upvotes of your little rant like you have, and provide me nothing in return, just petty downvotes. That’s exactly how I expect you to behave.
How come every time someone points out obviously racist coded stuff, the response is “well I didn’t directly say what my opinion was so how dare you, you’ll never know” like we don’t have reading comprehension and dog whistles.
Then you hone in on the one thing that might validate your blatantly obvious opinion, and tell me to give you sources, instead of actually answering my question.
Then you throw a tantrum saying I won’t give you what you want, and that if I don’t give you what you want, you’re right.
Even though you didn’t have the balls to answer my question.
Here’s a surprise for you, three examples of Problems Black People Can Have That Have Nothing To Do With White People, all of which I can personally attest to:
Black person cheated on their black spouse and they got divorced.
Black person’s car got a flat.
Black person’s favorite cereal was out at the grocery store.
Those problems don’t have anything to do with white people. But some related problems in those situations do.
The judge ordered way harsher child support of the black husband than a white husband would’ve had to deal with.
Cops harassed and threatened to arrest the black person trying to change a tire instead of offering help.
The person at the register accused the black person of stealing for no reason.
So yeah. Three examples. Bet you don’t have the balls to answer my question though.
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He was a holier than thou hypocrite. Dude had been drugging and raping women for years before he got on his high horse about that.
Fuck him.
Privileged white folk really don’t realize how much good Bill Cosby has done for poor kids. He contributed an insane amount to the community. He supported schools programs financially and helped a whole generation of black folk.
And when the news came out, you better believe we were all in the 5 stages of grief.
Just a complete 180 on his entire body of work. Like finding out Batman used homeless people for target practice. Or Jesus was a sith lord.
