At least 31 states and the District of Columbia restrict cell phones in schools
New York City teachers say the state’s recently implemented cell phone ban in schools has showed that numerous students no longer know how to tell time on an old-fashioned clock.
“That’s a major skill that they’re not used to at all,” Tiana Millen, an assistant principal at Cardozo High School in Queens, told Gothamist of what she’s noticed after the ban, which went into effect in September.
Students in the city’s school system are meant to learn basic time-telling skills in the first and second grade, according to officials, though it appears children have fallen out of practice doing so in an increasingly digital world.
“Numerous students”
Gotta love that completely nebulous and undefined number. It also sounds like a non-zero number simply have to be instructed to read the clock in order to understand it. Could be like 20 kids out of a school of 400. Oh noes the education system has completely failed!
They actually gave us a number but gave it to us on a abacus and now we can’t comprehend it.
It’s a bit scary that anything children were once expected to learn has now become “the calculator”. When calculators first came out the cry was ‘why do we need to learn to do math any more when this device can do it for us?’ Computers continued that trend. Smart phones even more so. It is a part of history that is hard to understand, how did a former, reasonably advanced civilization lose its advanced skills? We might be watching in real time how it happens. Except this time it is us, not an ancient civ.
Experienced software devs and tradesmen know this pain all too well. Frameworks and widgets make it easy to do stuff quickly, but no one knows how it works under the hood any more.
30 yo and tbh not sure I really know how to read it right.
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I never heard that one, but in my family if we weren’t wearing a wristwatch and someone asked the time, we’d look at our wrist and say, “It’s two hairs past the freckle.” :) Those were the days.
The little (shorter) hand points to the hour, the big (longer) hand points to the minutes. That’s pretty much it. And of course the hands move clockwise.
edit: I should also note that for reading the hour, the number the hour hand points to is the number of the hour, but for reading the minutes, each number counts as 5 minutes. There are usually dots between the numbers–each dot is 1 minute. So between the 12 and the 1 is 5 minutes, 1 to 2 is 5 more minutes, so the minute hand pointing to the 2 means 10 minutes after the hour.
I like thinking of the minutes in quarters and halves, “Its a quarter after 6pm” ≈ 1/4 * 60min is 15mins, so its 6:15pm. “Its 10 to seven” ≈ 60 - 10 is 50mins, so its 6:50. Idk unless its a timed activity I usually just round the clock to the higher number divisible by 5 “7:33” becomes “7:35”
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Also, the hour hand isn’t going to point directly to a number unless it’s the top of the hour
Read to which number the short hand points to first. Then read the long hand by counting the number of black lines that run along the sides of the circle. Going from the number 12 to 1 has 5 black lines in between. 12 to 2 has 10 lines, 12 to 6 has 30 lines, 12 to 10 has 50 lines. Check the picture attached as an example.
The hour hand is fucked up in some of those. With 5 lines in between numbers each one represents 12 minutes. But #4 clearly points to right around the 2nd line, rather than closer to the 3rd line. Numbers 10 through 12 are also wrong.
I get that it’s mostly for kids to be able to read the minute hand, but how hard could it be to not fuck up what they’d see in the real world?
As kid I knew how to read the clock, still I found it confusing and I needed to consciously put effort in it and I’d need to take some time concentrating.
At some point I decided to just ignore the minute hand, the hour hand alone is good enough for most uses and that helped.
Interestingly early clocks just had the hour hand, the minute hand was a later invention.
It takes me about one second to read the time on an analogue clock, and yes, some slight cognitive effort compared to a digital clock. The main thing is to get it into your head that every elapsed number from the top “12” position is five minutes. So, when the minute hand is pointed at the “2,” it means 10 minutes into the hour, 15 minutes when it’s pointed at the “3”, 30 minutes at the “6,” etc. once you’ve got that wired into your brain, reading the minutes becomes much easier, which is usually what slows people down in the beginning.
This is how I read the time too. I also tend to round up to the nearest number often if precision isn’t required. Like if it’s 5:27, I’ll simply read it as 5:30.
Yes, I read the clock the same now, 50 years later. As a kid that was quite hard for me.
Yes, it’s very much possible to read time with just the hour hand as currently you’re doing now. It’s a bit more difficult using smaller minutes however. My recommendation if you want be more comfortable with a two or three handed clock is to buy an analog wrist watch. Having it in practice daily cements it’s method eventually.I’m not doing it anymore now, but focusing on the hour hand was my stepping stone as a kid.
And then - someone else mentioned, what you need to learn is how to read the minutes, which count to 60 in 5 minute blocks.
Another post mentioned having an analog wrist watch helps, and I agree, that’s how I got quick with reading the clock at a glance later.
The basic thing I wanted to say in the first place: For kids it is not so easy to lean this.
A lot easier version is just short hand = the hour, long hand * 5 = the minutes
And the we do 24 hour time and you need to add 12 to the long hand number…Because dozenal rocks!
Want to be really stunned? Like, of your feet stunned?
Ask them which country is the best country on earth.
You’ll be floored…
Some might call this a "teachable moment ", no?
Exactly my thought. Not only are you getting the opportunity to teach a skill that had not previously been taught, but you are also able to help kids better understand the concept of time and why we use certain words to define time. Win win.
It’s wild to think that, “It’s a quarter to 8,” must be a mental exercise for some people. That is, instead of having an immediate understanding from being able to glance at an analog clock and think, “That’s clearly 1/4 of an hour,” it instead relies on a cognitive exercise that requires a knowledge of division and subtraction (60 divided by 4, then subtract the result from 60.)
Though I tend to think of time spatially, in part due to being raised with analog clocks. They’re much easier for me to read and understand at a glance without having to process much. Reading a digital clock requires converting it to analog in my mind, because the spatial appearance of the hands is what my brain makes sense of. I sometimes hear from people who can’t do that though, who instead have to convert the analog to digital in their minds. Which is fine, it just sounds much more “mathy” to me and like it takes more work than making sense of shapes. But to each their own.
It’s almost like you gotta teach people how to do things, that people aren’t just inherently born with all the knowledge to survive. Crazy I know.
It takes just a few minutes to learn how to read an analog clock. Once you’ve got the idea, you’ll be slow deciphering the time at first, but once you start doing it, very quickly you’ll be reading it immediately with just a glance.
I see analog clocks all over the place, especially waiting rooms and public buildings, and I have a very nice pretty one in my house. I think the people saying they’re not being used anymore just aren’t noticing them, they’re just background scenery to them and don’t enter their consciousness.
I think the people saying they’re not being used anymore just aren’t noticing them
Probably too busy getting shrimp neck and not looking up, LOL.
I learned how to read one over 20 years ago, when am I supposed to get to the point where it’s just a glance? (And it’s not like I rarely encountered analog clocks growing up, the only clock I could see during breakfast was an analog clock…)
I don’t mind them but for me digital is much faster to read. Granted it’s still like 2 seconds at most so not like it really matters, but I find it to be noticably more mental effort.
It would just depend on how often you actually use them, it’s just familiarity. If you had one in your house/classroom/office that you looked at whenever you wanted to know the time (as it used to be before digital), it would take only a quick glance. Your brain recognizes the shapes, just like it recognizes words in your native language immediately without figuring out the individual letters.
Every classroom I was in from kindergarten through university had analog clocks on the wall, so I was absolutely able to just glance. For years.
But since I haven’t been in a classroom for so long, and I’m not surrounded by analog clocks anymore, I think I’ve mostly lost that ability and I’ve found that it takes me a couple of seconds nowadays to decode it.
It’s definitely a skill that needs to be practiced to keep it up
How do you not read it at a glance? After 20 years you think you would just notice the general shapes, its all basically the same, especially if you simply round everything, which is what a lot of people do as time on an analog clock is rarely used super precise.
1/4 or 1/2 after or before, and almost.
Then what hour is the small hand approaching?
Quarter to 3.
Half past 1.
Almost 4.
Seems pretty simple. Unless you are used to 24 hours, then you would have to ignore or add 12.
If I know the hour already it’s usually at a glance since I just need to see the general area of the minute hand (unless it’s one of those clocks where the minute and hour hand are barely different in length so i have to first figure out which is which, but that’s just a design problem).
But otherwise, or if I need to know the time more precisely (which is kinda often tbh since nowadays I mainly see analog clocks in train stations) it takes me a second or two. Whatever it is that’d make me able to read them in an instant just never got wired in my brain i guess. Digital clocks I can read at a glance.
It might be digital clocks fault that I mostly think about time in minute precision and that then might have made it harder to ever build the pattern recognition for slightly rougher time reading from analog clocks
I’ve been hearing this since I was a kid, though back then they just blamed the use of digital clocks instead of phones.
Elder millennial here, I also struggle reading analogue clocks to this day. I can, but it just takes me a long time to do so. And I’ve been like this since I was a little kid.
I used to think it was a meme too and I still think it is to a point. But several of my recent jobs were at universities and I have met several people younger than me now who cannot read an analog clock, use a mouse, copy a file to a flash drive, or make change. To say nothing of their ability to find information that can’t be googled (like the location of a classroom). I have really begun to feel that the general population has absolutely failed GenZ and I really hope we can break the pattern before GenAlpha gets much older.
I met someone the other year who didn’t know the difference between cut and paste, and copy and paste
Edit: I agree with the last part of your comment especially. So often, I see people blaming GenZ for their lack of knowledge, but that feels unfair to me. From my perspective as a younger Millennial, it looked like society seemed to assume “oh, GenZ are digital natives, so they’re naturally a whizz at all this computer stuff” and often assumed that it wasn’t necessary to do much work to teach them how to use computers. Now that I’ve had more chance to meet GenZ folk in the workplace, I’ve heard this complaint from them a lot.
It’s made me grateful for growing up as a Millennial. I was too young to experience the early days of computing, but at least I got to experience computers and the internet before they became the closed, walled-off gardens that GenZ grew up with
“These newfangled analog clocks with hands are killing the ability of people to understand clock bells. Kids these days.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Striking_clock
A striking clock is a clock that sounds the hours audibly on a bell, gong, or other audible device. In 12-hour striking, used most commonly in striking clocks today, the clock strikes once at 1:00 am, twice at 2:00 am, continuing in this way up to twelve times at 12:00 mid-day, then starts again, striking once at 1:00 pm, twice at 2:00 pm, and the pattern continues up to twelve times at 12:00 midnight.
The striking feature of clocks was originally more important than their clock faces; the earliest clocks struck the hours, but had no dials to enable the time to be read.[1] The development of mechanical clocks in 12th century Europe was motivated by the need to ring bells upon the canonical hours to call the community to prayer. The earliest known mechanical clocks were large striking clocks installed in towers in monasteries or public squares, so that their bells could be heard far away.
I used to live in a city with many striking clocks, which meant that no matter where you were in the city, you could probably hear a bell ring out on the hour.
I’m realising now how much I miss it. I remember times like drinking with friends into the wee hours of the morning, when we would hear a bell and then all fall silent as we counted how many chimes there were. If it was only 2, we would laugh and continue, but for four or more, we would wince and contemplate the future consequences of our choices.
Or while doing an all-nighter to get an assignment in before a morning deadline, how my handwriting speed would become a touch more frantic with each passing chime
I thought these were still common? Any time I’m near a church they do their thing every 15 minutes, banging one bell 1-4 times and then if it’s 4 they bang another 1-12 times, signaling the time.
Well, not entirely, they’re usually quiet during the night, but you get my point.
Didn’t know people can’t understand those anymore.
The one near me plays the 4 bar “Westminster Quarters”. It plays one bar for each quarter hour. The full song on the hour, and bangs out the hour.
I just want to say, as someone who lives near such a bell, I’m grateful that they appear to observe “quiet hours” between 8pm and 8am. When I first moved in, I was worried it’d be dinging all night. Thank goodness that’s not the case.
I just have car alarms going off for no reason at 4am to worry about.
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Ick. Voting? Do I have to go wake up the dude that takes the cover off of my dad’s Rivian?
Also. Where’s my free house!?
I can only imagine how people treat subjects like informed voting.
No need to imagine, look at the people elected to run the United States.
That’s how people treat subjects like informed voting.
And look at the competition. You get what you ran against
Now you know how a clay tablet scribe felt when that new-fangled papyrus showed up in the high-schools.
You’re a funny bugger :)
I was going to reply to your hourglass and sundial joke with a reflection that hourglasses are so much older than the relatively recent development of sundials, but you clearly knew that so I didn’t. And then the one-two. You could have done cuneiform vs hieroglyphs but tablets vs papyrus is the better gag. Keep it up :)
Recent evidence shows they were used side by side for a while.
Interesting! Thanks.
When I was a kid, we had whole educational units on this. Like with a special demonstration clock and worksheets and everything.
How are kids supposed to learn if schools don’t teach them?
Parents?
All these kids are gonna fail their dementia tests in 60 years. 😝
(Yes that’s how it long it takes psychologists to update stuff, they still give out psych testers from the 1940s for stuff like custody evaluations)
I made a video that shows 24 hours in 24 minutes on an analog clock, a 24-hour clock, a 12-hour clock, and a second counter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zMgrbKDiek
Whoa
Why are you stunned? Most kids today are raising themselves. If it’s not a skill you teach in school, it’s not like they are learning it somewhere else.
It’s not that stunning, they didn’t grow up with them and you don’t really see them in public these days.
I work in schools. We have them in every hallway and classroom. But the kids do not know how to read them, and they don’t even seem interested to learn even though it would take all of two minutes to wrap their head around. Seen it in the middle and high schools.
We explicitly learned analog clocks in 1st grade, had worksheets and everything. What the hell are schools doing these days?
Still not teaching about taxes… or anything useful, clearly.
… Not doing that anymore? Because they’re very rare and you can easily get by without it most of the time
Judging by the stories my mom has after teaching for decades they no longer really teach anything. Nor are they allowed to. These days they have to follow a script for everything down to how you move your hands and when.
Disruptive student? Just keep teaching like nothings going on.
Student struggling with a subject? Don’t stop to help or try a different method to help them learn. No child left behind so they’ll still move up a grade even if they can’t read or do simple addition.
Just make sure the students are in the classroom so the school gets money. Nothing else matters.
People forget skills they don’t use. I’m guessing you and I had plenty of practice reading analog clocks over the years until the skill became completely ingrained.
Yup. I learned cursive in the 2nd or 3rd grade. Probably the last time I used it as well. If I needed to write something in cursive, I would be pretty screwed. I remember some of the easier stuff, like the vowels. But if I needed to write a “q” or “k” I don’t think I could remember it.
With that said, learning how to read an analog clock is way easier. It’s a formula/method, and the numbers are right there. It’s not memorization. This should be something easy to teach.
The problem is that analog clocks are not in the curriculum for middle school and high school. It’s hard to find time to teach middle schoolers how to read clocks when you are struggling through “To Kill a Mockingbird” with a bunch of students on a 4th grade reading level.
Teenagers in inner city schools not knowing how to read analog clocks is a much more complicated issue than it seems on the surface. The solution is not “well they should have just had the childhood that I had and it wouldn’t be a problem”
Yeah, it reminds me of languages. I learned French to a pretty high level in high school (I was a try hard whose brain clicked well with languages), but over the last decade, I have rarely used those skills and I was recently shocked to realise how much my knowledge had atrophied. It’s easy to become complacent once you feel you have learned something, but you use it or you lose it.
Lol and whose fault is that?
Well, it’s the students, but humans are dumb, we make bad choices. That’s kinda the whole point of being a child actually, to make all those bad decisions and learn from them. But any
parenthuman knows that sometimes you just need to lay down the law, make some hard rules. Some lessons are hard to learn and enforcing some ground rules (like no cell phones in schools) will help you learn good habits for yourself.I’m more surprised they didn’t already know that
The morons here are the teachers.
People don’t know what they dont know and haven’t been taught. We have been relying on this idea that each next generation just has what the previous generation knows. It isn’t a practice thing it is a we haven’t prepared the new for what the world has to offer.
We do this everywhere and blame the uneducated and point and laugh. Fuck that.
I can’t wait for the students to learn and be proud when they do.As someone who is in a relevant field (higher ed), the teachers are doing what they can.
This past year I’ve had college students ask about the time during an exam because they can’t read the analog clock projected on the wall. If you can make it to 20 years old without realizing you’re missing a critical skill and learning it yourself, that’s also on you.
We’re also seeing a lack of critical thinking skills and ability to retain information. People don’t remember things that were taught 1-2 semesters ago. Not that they need “a refresher”, but completely forget core concepts (such as forgetting what CPU caches are in an advanced architecture course). Then there’s tons of people who can recite every definition on an exam, but not take a step further to come to a conclusion on a problem. (Git revert reverts checked files, so if I run the command after committing a test file the file is gone and no test is executed).
There is something wrong with students today. And I’m saying that as someone who just finished my undergrad during COVID. But the institutions are adapting by teaching things with less depth, which then dumbs down further education because they now have to re-cover everything from scratch…
