Genuinely curious, did they have child sex slavery when America was founded or just the normal kind of slavery?
Well, the normal kind of slavery usually involved some level of rape, and slave children weren’t uncommon, so…2+2=4…
They didn’t see people or even children. They saw a n****r. They saw a n****r with a hole. A hole that they owned, and can do with what they please.
Apologies for resorting to the strong language, but it’s kind of important to impart…we grew up with a very romanticized vision of slavery taught to us by the white American public education system. I made a goddamn diorama of a plantation in the 5th grade (1995). And put a happy little slave working the tobacco fields (my mom even crumbled up a cigarette and glued it to the board. It was a Misty. I can still smell it…)
Using the hurtful word, in this context, I think is important to remind us of exactly why it’s such a hurtful word. The history has been forgotten by so many.
I’d gladly use any of Carlin’s 7 Words in most contexts. That word is obfuscated for a reason. It shouldn’t be used anymore, except in this type of context, to remind us of our violent past.
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I wish we had a functioning justice system. Seeing these fuckers marched off to jail would be so great.
It’s a fair point - one of the most important steps in change is understanding the power we have. Not just as individuals, but collectively.
Don’t wish for a future. Instead, want to build that future. I want to build a functioning justice system.
There’s a lot more that needs to be rebuilt, if not most of the US.
However Americans are the most pacified subservient and meak population I’ve seen.
The complete opposite of what they think of themselves: heroic warriors of freedom.
Were the Virginia planters keeping sex slaves capitalists though? Most of the capitalists at the time were up north where slavery was illegal by the founding.
Doesn’t living in luxury while building wealth on the labor of others count as capitalism?
No, that could be feudalism or lots of things
Not if you’re applying situational context. The American slave trade was intended for entirely capitalistic and sadistic means.
Not by itself, agrarian slavery is different from industrial wage labor under private owners.
Is that really the hair you want to split?
ITT: Centrists defending the lesser pedo because they’re perfectly fine with pedophilia as long as there’s at least one person worse than they are. And there isn’t a one of them who won’t immediately revise their position as soon as one of their guys is the worse pedo.
Doesn’t this apply to almost every country?
certainly true for capitalist ones
Allegations from Montefiore famous for lying about having access to unreleased Soviet archives, being a rabid anti-communist and being best friends with Ghislaine Maxwell. Certainly not the most reliable source.
You’re not wrong like
no, he’s actually both wrong and dishonest in making a false equivalence there
That’s rich being accused of whataboutism by you 😅
That’s not what whataboutism is, and even when used correctly, it’s often done in bad faith.
Looks like we have another expert in whataboutism here 🤡
when you definitely know what false equivalence is 🤣
Oh look, on of my favorite trolls crawls out of his hole again after long slumber. Last I checked, Beria was executed while your oligarchs continue to be untouchable. Thank your for providing us with a concrete example of the Soviet system being superior.
Not to mention main source about Beria is Montefiore who also is in the Epstein files, always projection, always
You really gotta love how anarchists see themselves as the ultimate free thinkers, but their views just always happen to be whatever propaganda the pedo elites are putting out. Weird that.
Last I checked, Epstein also ended up dying prematurely, while Stalin continued to be untouchable (
who btw. married a 14 year old).Thank you for providing us with an concrete example of all states being the the same shit.
Edit: Ok, apparently Stalin’s second wife was 18 when they married (he was 40 at the time). Sounds like he waited until it was formally legal to do so…
zionist montefiore probably has a totally nuanced perspective to write a biography about stalin, no doubt!
Thank you for providing us with an concrete example of all states being the the same shit.
You’ve been so blackpilled by capitalist realism that you think it makes you enlightened. It’s a form of self-reinforcing learned helplessness.
Stalin’s first wife, Ekaterina Svanidze, was 21 years old when they married in 1906. His second wife, Nadezhda Alliluyeva, was 18 years old at the time of their marriage in 1919.
More Montefiore nonsense no doubt.
Ok, I stand corrected about Stalin not being a totally upstanding person of 40 years old when he married his second wife that just barely turned 18 🙄
Yet still not a pedophile as you were trying to say. Almost like you have an agenda you really want to push. One that really coincides with that of the Epstein alliance.
This is just silly. Keep moving the goalposts further and further from the founding, child-raping slavers.
Epstein was just a harem manager for the rich fucks who continue to run around completely unaccountable. Meanwhile, others already pointed out your attempts to spread misinformation here. I guess carrying water for the empire by trying to do the whole both sides bad is really the core identity for anarchists.
And now I remember why I have you tagged as a defender of Rhodesia.
Right, because I stated historically accurate facts 🤡 Just like I did here. Lemmy.ml users are such a joke.
Any time you see someone claim they were “just stating facts” you can guarantee they are saying complete nonsense
projecting lol
Americans are always amazed that different countries have different histories.
I’ve heard similar things about “aren’t all countries founded on native genocide?”
Ok tell me about the country with the moral founding.
This silly, idealist question isn’t the gotcha you think it is.
Actually it’s pretty foundational anarchist doctrine.
You’re bolstering my case, given anarchism’s track record. Communism is founded on historical materialism, not on morality or idealism.
But you don’t have to subscribe to communism to get value out of letting go of moralism.
Cool nobody asked.
just because you lack any inquisitiveness on your part, don’t assume the same for everyone else
Idealism?
I guess?
But I was referring to the innate immorality of the state.
But I won’t deny a certain amount of idealism is required to be an anarchist.
Are you sure you understand what idealism means in this context?
Just to be clear, by idealism we mean the conception that thought is prior to matter, ie supernatural explanations for material phenomena. We do not mean having ideals. An example of idealism is ascribing a morality to the state to begin with. There is no such thing as a supernatural “good or evil,” and that’s why Marxists reject such frames of argument.
Christianity is anarchist doctrine?
Christianity is whatever we want it to be.
Founded by capitalists that kept children as sex slaves — Doesn’t this apply to almost every country?
Ok tell me about the country with the moral founding.
Vietnam.
Ireland?
Ballyseedy massacre etc.
Ireland is a bourgeois democracy, otherwise known as a bourgeois dictatorship.
https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Library:The_German_ideology#Ruling_class_and_ruling_ideas
The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e. the class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its ruling intellectual force. The class which has the means of material production at its disposal, has control at the same time over the means of mental production, so that thereby, generally speaking, the ideas of those who lack the means of mental production are subject to it. The ruling ideas are nothing more than the ideal expression of the dominant material relationships, the dominant material relationships grasped as ideas.
The world’s tax haven now but I’ll go with ya for a cool thousand years.
Does that make it ok?
Lol, they want Clinton to be as dirty as Trump so badly.
lol, libs want to cling to the idea that their oligarchs are the good ones so badly
I don’t know how people can maintain their suspension of disbelief at this point.
How do people still not see that, as horrendous as a child rape ring is, that’s just the tip of the iceberg. It’s just an entertaining diversion for these people, whose day job is running the imperial core.
I think it’s really hard for people to accept that everything they believed in is basically wrong. They don’t live in a democracy, they don’t have a voice, they can’t vote their way out of the hole they’re in. That’s a hard pill to swallow for the crowd that convinced itself that they just need to vote harder and everything will be alright.
Yeah, I remember a while back I introduced a friend to some simple basic facts about capitalism and it just made him really sad to the point of passivity and not wanting to learn any more. I guess my approach was wrong at the time. I have more success now, but I’m not sure what I do differently. Maybe contradictions have just increased.
I find when you are trying to educate people you know, you kind of have to learn how the person thinks and then tailor the message in terms that will likely resonate with them based on their own values. How you express an idea tends to matter as much as the idea itself.
I’m worried about the implications that the child sex ring was a honeypot that was supported by multiple intelligence agencies. My understanding is that Maxwell has ties to Mossad and the US government clearly had knowledge of this shit for decades, yet the few investigations went nowhere. Is it simply because the perpetrators were wealthy and influential? Or was it because the whole operation was viewed as an important intelligence asset? In addition to funding the bombing of schools and refugee camps, are my tax dollars also funding a child sex trafficking rings?
are my tax dollars also funding a child sex trafficking rings?
If you’re in the mood for yet another mindfuck today, your federal taxes don’t actually pay for anything. Previously.
What? None of them are good. Arrest and charge them all. That’s one big difference, left doesn’t really give a fuck, charge them ALL. The cult will never admit to mistakes by their orange leader, it’s double and triple down, distract, lie, distract, lie more, on and on. Orange leader can do no wrong in their eyes. Anyone with empathy and 3 brain cells says lock them ALL up, NOW, no matter the “side”.
did you read the comment I replied to, also liberals are not the left
The good ones? You know there’s a difference between “This oligarch is good” and “Both oligarchs are bad, but one is substantially worse”, right?
It’s like saying cancer is worse than AIDS.
It’s closer to “cancer is worse than HIV”, but that’s not a terrible analogy. While obviously neither is great, cancer is typically much more difficult to manage. HIV is a single virus which is much easier to mitigate, to the point that with modern treatment most people can live a pretty normal life, while cancer is a whole class of diseases for which treatment is much less reliable and much more invasive.
Trump is worse to americans because he gives them a small taste of what ALL their oligarchs do to the rest of the world all the time.
AFAIC that makes him better.Clinton was a corrupt mass-murdering scumbag, same as his psycho ghoul wife.
And even on the perversions I doubt Clinton is less bad.
Got away with a rape already in university, in between that and Lewinsky I bet there’s plenty of unreported abuse.Give me one good objective reason for your statement.
Liberals show no sign whatsoever that they believe the latter instead of the former.
But please keep being condescending when people don’t like your oligarch.
There is a world of room between “good” and “ran a child sex trafficking ring”. Clinton may be a POS for many reasons and he may have visited Epstine island and maybe even raped children (we don’t know at this point but anyone in the flight logs is sus). That is all absolutely terrible but it’s still very different than kidnapping 10’s or hundreds of children to rape and pimp. And the files seem to indicate that Trump was actively involved in this scheme for decades.
maybe even raped children
but
I swear, it’s impossible to parody lesser-evilists because you’re all self-parodies at this point.
Step back and realise that you’re trying to quibble about levels of evil between child rapists.
But their oligarch can’t be bad!
Both Clintons are in the Epstein files hundreds of times. They also both happen to be war criminals.
Yeah, the Clintons have done absolutely terrible things. I would never claim otherwise. I don’t remember the Clinton administration very well but I don’t doubt that he’s a war criminal.
The meme claims that Bill was “keeping child sex slaves” and that isn’t supported by any evidence that I’ve seen.
Everyone involved should get investigated and tried for any and all crimes.
Everyone involved should get investigated and tried for any and all crimes.
Indeed they should, but they won’t, because they’re above the law. They shouldn’t be above the law, but they objectively are. What you’re seeing isn’t some rare exception, it’s a peek behind the curtain of how the United States is actually run, and it’s nothing like how it’s supposed to work on paper.
You don’t need to defend the lesser evil just because it’s lesser.
Pretend they’re comedians. Pretend you’re comparing Louis CK to Bill Cosby. You don’t need to defend CK just because Cosby is worse.
Yeah there is a difference between the pimp and the john.
And i still think Clinton should go to prison if he had sex with girls or trafficked women.
But that’s not nearly at the level of punishment I think is fit for Trump , Epstein (assuming he’s still alive) , maxwell, and all the others who raped children and engaged in violence and torture with them. And of course the men who funded Epstein’s enterprise. And shielded him.
I also think any women who helped him deserves pretty bad punishment. You can be a victim and a predator. So their own victimizing doesn’t get them off.
They broke an even more sacred pact between women.
Women believe other women can be trusted. We always have each other. We always look out for each other. Especially from a man trying to hurt us. We warn each other.
Women need this. We depend on it.
But they used this against girls and other women to lure them into danger.
Unforgivable.
Agreed. 100%
Seems to me that once you reach raping children stages there’s no need to split hairs further.
Yes, a thousand times yes.
Also, alll those people in the files that were in active contact with Epstein after it was public knowlegde he was a child molester deserve no respect and should be investigated as well.
Fair. I do think scale is sometime important. A single murder is not a genocide. But I can see your POV.
Regardless, Clinton is awful but IDK what he did on the island. If he did rape kids then I hope they throw his ass in jail.
I do think scale is sometime important. A single murder is not a genocide.
Yeah, the clinton wing of the party would never support just one murder.
I want a worse fate for him if so, however, I don’t want it to be a distraction from the existing Pedo in Chief and their ilk.
There’s no evidence he did anything inappropriate with kids.
Trump, however, has been accused by multiple Epstein victims.
“There’s no evidence this longtime Epstein associate who flew multiple times on a plane called the Lolita Express did anything inappropriate with kids”
Correct. Epstein had connections to his charities. Was for humanitarian work.
You think Trump released the files with more evidence of him fucking kids than Clinton if there was any other option?
Yeah man the president of the united states totally needed the funding and connections of a known pedophile in order to do some vague, nondescript “social work”.
Well?
You’re implying that there is.
So where is it? You’re setting expectations extremely high for yourself.
Gonna need that evidence.
The scumbag was accused decades before this came out by plenty women even during his university years.
He got away with it because of his position.
And once a rapist always a rapist.
You can delude yourself all you want if you think he didn’t go to Epstein Island to rape kids.
disgustingYou know things are going well for your wealthy rapist of choice when you’re reduced to saying “Well can you prove that he was doing the things that everyone around him was also doing?”
There is a world of room between “good” and “ran a child sex trafficking ring”.
We keep being told to not let the perfect be the enemy of the good. There is no good on offer. Just varying levels of reprehensible shit.
That’s kinda the point I was making. The meme says “these guys kept child sex slaves”. Someone responds that Clinton didn’t have the same level of involvement as Trump and Epstein. Someone else responded “they want to believe their guy is good”. My response is basically “saying that he isn’t a pimp isn’t saying that he’s good”.
There are different levels of evil. All should be dealt with. Maybe the worst (the pimps, traffickers, ringleaders and financiers) should get priority, especially if they pose a greater threat to everyone else? Pointing that out is in no way excusing the lesser evil.
I haven’t seen anyone in this thread saying anything positive about Clinton. At most, a few folks have pointed out that we haven’t seen any rape accusations against Clinton in the files. I doubt that you’ll find anyone here who doesn’t want this whole mess properly investigated and for all of the guilty parties to get appropriate punishment.
I feel like I could have this same argument with a Trump supporter: Trumpie: “Well, Clinton’s in the files too” Me: ”I haven’t seen anyone tangible accusations, but if he committed crimes then lock him up” T: “You just want to defend your guy” Me: “Um, I really don’t. And please refrain from calling him ’my guy’”
I haven’t seen anyone in this thread saying anything positive about Clinton.
I’ve seen a lot of proactive defense of him from the same people who demanded unquestioning worship of the second worst genocide supporter. This is the same garbage.
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their cult can do no wrong.
so fanatic they want to defend this pedo.
As if mass-murdering wasn’t enough.
Nice fantasy world you’re living in.
who is they?
And why wouldn’t that bastard be as dirty?Why wouldn’t he be as dirty as the man mentioned in the redacted Epstein files 38,000 times? Why wouldn’t he be as dirty as the man who is literally running underage sex clubs? Do you know that Mar A Lago still employs 16 year olds as masseuses and cocktail waitresses? That never actually stopped. That’s still going on. Underage girls giving gross old men full body massages. Clinton is a sonofabitch, but there is an ocean of difference between him and Trump.
I know they’re both disgusting mass-murderers and rapists.
I’m not going to make a distinction between them.
Plenty of whitewashing from the Blue MAGA cult dogmatically defending their own.
That says a lot about them.
He’s not as dirty as Trump, but he’s dirty.
Oh, almost forgot. HA HAHAHA HA HA
The USA founders kept children as sex slaves? Details on this?
Another, longer video with a more formal structure and more evidence on screen: NonCompete’s The “Founding Fathers” were the Original Epstein Class.
buckle up, you’re about to learn some truly disturbing shit https://cdn.masto.host/socialmarxistnetwork/media_attachments/files/116/223/022/167/204/299/original/9764ae0811b84558.mp4
I’m curious but this video doesn’t seem to play in mobile on FF or Chrome
can try this link instead https://social.marxist.network/@yogthos/116223022810878412
That worked, thank you!
I never watched Hamilton, because I can’t stomach more singing hagiography.
I would watch a remake involving late-18th century Epstein files, though.
Open in browser then. It’s a .mp4.
Uhm yeah I tried that on Firefox and Chrome lol
This part is accurate the capitalist part isn’t though
It’s probably accurate you don’t grasp the capitalist part.
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Most of the founding father owned slaves. Raping slaves was not an uncommon practice at the time and there were no restrictions on the appropriate age of the slaves one rapes. Thomas Jefferson may have started his “relationship” with Sally Hemming when she was 14.
I think it would take a decent effort to get clear proof about the founding fathers raping child slaves, but it is known that they owned slaves and many had illegitimate children with slaves and raping child slaves was a common practice at the time so I think it’s a strong possibility.
