This is me looking at myself cause I use both lol
World Surf League?
Lol I thought they were random words, but no.
I’m not sure what Linux users have against the World Surf League either, saw some footage from Margaret River the other day and it looked like a great event!
Linux community: why don’t more people use Linux? Also Linux community: LOL LOOK AT THESE STUPID FUCKERS TRYING LINUX WRONG, LETS ALL GO SHIT ON THEM
goddamn do yall deserve eachother and your 0.01% OS share or whatever meaningless percentage of the OS market you represent.
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Do you realize it’s just a funny meme picture on the internet? We are on linuxmemes@lemmy.world and the picture is so mild, it’s just a friendly poke for fun and you just try to tear us a new asshole for that, damn, chill.
It’s not funny, it’s gatekeeping.
You’re gatekeeping.
this homeless trans is laughing because of all the concerns in the world you’re bent over a weak joke that contains nuance considering the character showing disgust and disdain. he’s a baddy! 🤣
I’m glad you found a laugh and a moment of lightness while you’re struggling, and I hope the world becomes a kinder place for you as soon as possible. This is still a joke where the punchline is “windows user (ie, outgroup) disgusting”, and I hope you can understand why it’s bad to put that kind of energy out in the world then pretend it’s a joke.
its funny even if its a dead horse. don’t sweat it. folks will tell on themselves given the right prompt.
As a counterpoint to all of the people saying that you’re overreacting:
They’re right.
However, I think the sentiment of your comment is valid and correct. Memes like this do ultimately serve to alienate newer Linux users.
I think people are mostly responding to the way that your comment is worded, which conveys a much stronger reaction than is necessary for something that ultimately doesn’t cause very much harm.
Nobody is happy when you call them out for marginalizing people they view as inferior. I get the same reaction when call out family members being blatantly racist at family gatherings. I don’t care about the reactions of people who choose to engage only with my tone, they’re not here to interact with me or my opinions in a meaningful way. Last, I don’t believe I overreacted at all. I called out shitty alienating behaviour in response to a meme that implies an outgroup community is disgusting or inferior based on their operating system choice. As I see it the tone of the meme was significantly more insulting than the tone of my response.
You have to consider that your tone is important when trying to make a point.
It doesn’t help to call someone out in a way that’s callous and without any consideration toward how they may feel about being called out. All it does is elicit a strong emotional reaction which often results in them doubling down and being defensive of their behavior.
If you call someone out gently, and they’re not willing to listen, then you can ratchet it up a little depending on the severity of the behavior… until you reach a point where it’s clear that you’re not going to get anywhere.
So yeah, again, it’s toxic behavior to alienate a subset of Linux users when the community is already very fragmented. But your comment wasn’t just saying the behavior was shitty, it was also implying that the people who engage it in are shitty people. I understand that’s (hopefully) not what you meant, but humans tend to think that behavior==identity and it takes effort to override that. Naturally, when the quality of one’s person is in question, they’re going to be quite defensive.
I feel like I’m being admonished by a schoolteacher and honestly I probably deserve it. You’re probably right but I’m grumpy about it and need to re-read this later when I’m less grumpy about it
One of the main points of using Linux is so that you don’t have to use Windows. Like I get WSL is useful in certain scenarios, but it’s whole existence is basically counter to why the majority of Linux users use Linux.
Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooosh
How?
Encouraging the use of WSL to new Linux users is asinine. It’s a niche tool with a shitload of bugs and caveats, not something that should be widely used as a daily driver. It’s not “shitting on” anyone to tell them they shouldn’t be using WSL as their daily driver distro, just like it’s not “shitting on” someone to tell them not to use a hammer to drive in a screw.
I made a comment about the gatekeeping attitude of the community and you responded to me with a critique of WSL. The point I made sailed entirely over your head, hence the whoosh.
Saying “don’t use WSL as your first Linux distro” isn’t gatekeeping though, it’s just good advice.
Sure, that’s a valid position to have. Your position only relates to the OP meme in the loosest possible sense; the meme presents WSL users as inferior objects of disgust, which is clearly distinct from a claim that WSL is not the right starter distro for most people. As I see it you’re effectively whitewashing an elitist talking point by pretending it’s about helping new users, or you just didn’t notice the elitism because you are not part of the targeted out-group.
Lol brother, you were the one that introduced the context of “new Linux users”.
Linux community: why don’t more people use Linux?
I’m not whitewashing anything, I’m not being elitist. The only thing I’m trying to say is that if the Linux community wants to attract more users, we should absolutely be turning up our noses at WSL, like Homelander here in this meme. Because it’s a niche tool, not something a new Linux user should be daily driving.
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All I know is that the WSL is a massive step-up from Cygwin or Mingw32. We’ve been here before. The most recent incarnation before WSL was a klunky VirtualBox VM steered by Packer. The idea that you can mash a few buttons and get an Ubuntu VM with filesystem mapping that “just works” is a huge improvement.
Edit: I really don’t get the vitriol anyone gets for using the WSL when it’s a problem the FOSS community has tried to solve three times over in the last 25+ years or so.
When someone ask for help with a Linux issue: 🤩
It’s a wsl bug: 🤭
Open source now tho
What’s the benefit for that? Can you fork it and run a copy in windows (or is it too integrated in wondows) or is it just Microsoft wanting your free labour (bugfixes etc)?
At least you can look at how it works under the hood I guess
Mom! Windows is doing EEE again.
Oh yeah, that is true !
I still don’t know what WSL is for.
Windows Stolen Linux
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I love having it at work, so I can write and run bash scripts on my Windows work PC.
I have dozens if Linux servers available to me but sometimes it just is easier to run a script locally.
I too do that, working from a windows vm and writing code for linux - but I push it to a linux vm for testing. Never occurred to me to use WSL and have another environment to configure and maintain for dev that’s different to the target one.
But fair play if that suits you! Each to their own, and I’m sure I do things that make no sense to others.
To keep developers on the platform, because their own ecosystem is shit.
Honestly if it frees me from MinGW I would be happy
I’m happy the Cygwin and Mingw days are over. WSL2 works very well.
Anecdote: I have an IDE that only works on Windows that can build applications for Linux. I use MinGW as part of the packaging process (AND I FUCKING HATE IT OH MY GOD. All of the pathing is broken!). As of yesterday I learned that WSL is a thing that might replace MinGW and make some processes of packaging for linux targets a little easier.
I’ve used both. What I can tell you is that moving to WSL is like moving to Linux wholesale. Treat it like porting your toolchain.
IIRC, MinGW tools will happily take windows style paths (e.g. “C:\Users~myuser\projects”). If your tooling/scripting depends on being able to use Windows style paths, you’ll have to fix that first or you’re going to have a really bad time. There may be other small differences between MinGW tools and what ships on Ubuntu (or whatever Linux you decide to use in the WSL).
I only use Windows because I have to work with a corporation’s IT helpdesk staff to get on their VPN if I want to do contract work for them. They are not likely to help me get connected from Linux; they’ll just find another contract dev. Once in, I do everything in Linux because my code will ultimately run in a Linux cloud container of some sort. WSL works well enough for me to do this. I’d rather have Linux on bare metal, but whatever. I’m in; I’m coding; I’m getting paid. I’ll put up with a little bit of suck.
its for when the reqs include azure ad and the whole office has a m$ fetish yet you still gotta get your bag without losing your decades-built toolset AND you have a choice at all
That sounds like hell.
edus and with the heavy m$ edu discounts attract and hold
Run Linux stuff on Windows.
A big use case is development with Docker containers.
Thanks - I can kind of see that, as docker on windows is majorly broken. I think I’d just run it in a linux vm, as I do with most of my developing, but I can see some might not want that overhead.
That’s the best bit about WSL (at least, version 2) is that it is a VM running a full version of Linux using Microsoft Hypervisor. There’s a bunch of drivers included that allow Windows and Linux to share filesystems and if you run Wayland/X apps in Linux they run on the Windows desktop.
Sharing filesystems could be useful, I can see that.
I do that with target dev platforms anyway, using things like NFS, samba and sftp, but I do see that it could work well for this.
Consider dropping Windows instead
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My company only allows us to use the company-provided Windows image, so I do all my work inside a WSL2 tmux session.
JetBrains IDEs and VSCode also have WSL connectors so it works acceptably well.
It also handily dodges all the Windows security policies (like installing software). You can even run Xorg apps from it.
I’m still forced to use MS Teams and Outlook, though…
Good answer. Like a michelin chef working at McDonald’s and having a little secret area of his own.
yup!
Serious answer,
Windows subsystem for Linux.
I do know what it is, I just don’t know why you’d use it instead of proper linux, or a vm.
Bad management
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Subsystem_for_Linux
Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) is a component of Microsoft Windows that allows the use of a GNU/Linux environment from within Windows, foregoing the overhead of a virtual machine and being an alternative to dual booting.
Them tryna suck us back into their dysfunctional os, not gonna work on me Mr Micro
Oddly enoigh, they recognize this and are patching the hundreds of tiny holes. I would argue they began trying (IMO malformed) fixes back since the launch of windows 8 and .NET. It’s backwards compatability means tiptoing around some pretty huge tech dept. (Windows was DOS and had no security model at one point) Each time they try to pull people off of their older SDKs. If and when they dont stick, the pile of stuff to support grows one more.
(Also WTH where they thinking with windows 8 apps!? The oversimplicity of the UI leading to huge patches of unused screen space, the art design or lack thereof, the janky unpolished UI elements. It’s embarrising for how much pride they had for it.)
Why not just use both?
Install Windows in a VM on a Linux distro and use WSL there?
Wsl runs on hyper-v. I don’t think you can use it in a VM
Most WSL users I know all run Linux at home; WSL is the best they can get at work.
True
Windows users when they see a wine user???
I’m glad wsl exists so I don’t have to bother with windows and people can still run my programs.
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When using WSL, be sure to not mention anything about that when reporting bugs because that’ll just confuse the issue for the maintainers. They like having that casually mentioned about 20 messages into the troubleshooting process.
Pff, issue reports should ask for the output of ‘uname -ar’. It clearly shows its wsl as wsl runs a special kernel
I’m a big fan of going on WSL forums and letting them know everything is working well for give or take 20 messages, then I let them know I need help troubleshooting.
Wait, Linux users are elitist assholes?
<surprised_pikachu.jpg>
wouldn’t you be if you spent 25 years hearing Windows admins preaching about how much better windows is than Linux?
I mean, I’m bitter AF about it and give the MS vendors a good ribbing now and again.
If Windows was so great, why would WSL even be needed? unless their whole plan was to attempt to interfere with the Linux market and tempt people who left to come back.
too bad they went full psycho with 11.
Born to Gentoo+i3, forced (by work) to WSL
Aww, cry harder.
I started using Linux when it was Redhat, in the 1990s, and it came on a bunch of CDs.
And I use WSL in addition to Debian, Raspbian, and Ubuntu.
Knock this tribal bullshit off.
I started with Slackware. It came on floppies.
Now move to the back of the line youngster.
I’ll never forget the first time I finally got Linux 0.1 to boot on my abacus.
CD’s?! Ooh La La Mister Fancy French man with the digital media! Back in our day linux came on a plastic 45 inside Fruity Pebbles cereal and it had loose crusty sugar in the grooves that introduced errors in X that meant the screen scrolled like an out-of-whack tv and you had to wait for the prompt to roll by so you could try another resolution that would core dump and spit you back to the A:\ drive and eject the disc into your shins like a frisbee! And that’s the way we liked it!
Some people hate practically it seems
Yeah, why would they post something like this to the community for serious takes about Linux?
Aww, cry harder.
Some real pleasant people here.
I tried to get the *arr stack running on it at one point, using Docker.
Do not do this. Just install the Windows apps. Yes, it’s a mess. Yes, they work.
Just curious, what were the issues?
It was a while ago now, bit I think it was trying to get all the individual bits to talk to each other (radarr to prowlarr, etc). I was following some guide and that’s where it all fell apart.
Sounds like a network configuration issue of the containers - you either have to use the host network (probably not recommended) or to map the necessary ports of each app. But trying to do that in WSL sounds like an extra layer of fuckery that you don’t necessarily have to deal with. Running Docker directly on Windows sounds like the more sane thing to do in that case.
Jokes on you, docker on windows uses wsl too :')
I know, but it’s managed by Docker, i.e. you don’t have to do anything special.
Yeah, it was blocking the networking between them, and after Google failed me for an hour, I realised they all had Windows installers so there wasn’t really a lot of point persevering with weird half-broken versions of Linux and Docker.
What if… WSL is a gateway drug to Arch?
Don’t do drugs, kids!
For once I think I agree with Linux purists.
Fuck I might need a shower.
