Please use windows XP and connect it to the internet and see what happens LOL
Try to exist in any kind of life above “hippy with hemp clothes living in a yurt on their parent’s property and a trust fund” without things like a smartphone, a car and a computer.
I have. Nothing happened.
Oh well.
I connected win 98 to the internet yesterday. It was fine, and probably safer than win 11 is now. No built in Spyware either ha!
(Don’t use win 98 as your main os. I am partially joking and I only use it for running old programs and games.)
I’ve been hacked before #notfun
There are programs Searching for online old windows OS. You will be hacked sooner or later better to run linux and vm old windows instead. Putting old windows on the internet is like sticking your pp into Bonnie Blue without a condom and being the last man in line too.
I do use it within a vm on linux ha
That doesn’t count LOL
Yeah im not raw dogging it ha, unless I had my old hardware then I would
Don’t risk it they infiltrate your router too, happened to me.
If i was on old hardware I wouldn’t be connected to the internet ha
I think the issue people have with “tech” is that much of the software and devices sold take up too much space and do things people don’t want them to do, without offering choice, configurability, and options for full control
This is what I see whenever I see an apple device. There’s very little control that the user can exert that Apple hasn’t blessed to be something within your control.
All computers are general purpose logic machines and they’re intentionally making them not do things that they absolutely could otherwise do, just because.
Not saying iPhones are bad, or that Mac’s are bad… I’ve just noticed that if you do things in a way that is compatible with how Apple thinks you should do them, then Apple works very well for you. If you have foolish notions to do things differently (or, “think different”… If you will), then you’re going to have a bad time.
If you use homebrew you can install all kinds of things on a mac. So, you get the power of a Unix-based machine with the nice eye-candy, ease of use, rock solid drivers, etc. of an Apple device.
But, the phones are another matter. Those things are so locked down it’s ridiculous. We really need competition in the mobile phone OS market.
I am now using lineage which is fine but still way too restrictive for my tastes. I tried using linux(postmarketos) as I am fine with a lot of inconveniences but was unable to make or take calls, which is kind of a hard line. There should just be an android based phone os which is degoogled and rooted by default, but really the problem lies with the hardware, I think. There need to be more phones with open firmware to make an alternative os really possible.
Yes, if you leverage the powers of root and you know what you are doing, you can endlessly modify MacOS to your heart’s delight.
I find most people don’t have that ability. They stick to the Apple app store and color inside of the lines that Apple has put down.
It’s no small feat to overcome some of the “safeguards” they have put in your way with modifying the device.
If you use an iPhone and you don’t like the Apple way of doing everything, your options are basically: 1. Tough shit, deal with it, or 2. Don’t use an iPhone.
Android has a lot of the same protections, but you can still, from the user interface, bypass a lot of it, by design. It’s “not recommended”, but you can do it.
Microsoft is trying to move towards what Apple is doing. The TPM requirement allows Microsoft to basically hold the keys to the kingdom, so to speak. What they’re aiming for is a root of trust (which is naturally, Microsoft), that allows all other things on your PC to run without warnings or dialogs, if they have been blessed by Microsoft’s certificate authority for code signing (which is a requirement for drivers, but not nearly as strict of a requirement for applications).
This is the foundation of the “trusted computing” thing that they’re pushing forward. The problem I have with “trusted computing” is who is issuing the trust? So far it seems like Microsoft is… Which is not great IMO.
However, since Windows is only requiring that level of trusted signature on code for drivers, we’re not to the same dystopia that MacOS has been “enjoying” for years.
Pre-computer cars sucked. Anyone that’s worked on mechanical fuel injection will tell you so.
Dude I would love a non computerized car with fuel injection. Of course I stay with an older car with computer. My tuck and wife car are sending shit to tech bros.
I.would be interested in starting a penpal club. That be something cool to bring back in vogue. Of course we could start forms that don’t do tracking or drown you in ads.
You could get one by installing an aftermarket ECU and a fuel injection system in a car from those eras. It’s probably harder than most people would be willing to do, but it’s definitely doable
i think these a microprocessors though? no internet access for them.
Nah, mechanical injection diesel engines are awesome.
Cutting out the middle man does not involve technologically regressing.
Cutting out the middle man means stepping up and learning how the tech you use in your daily lives actually works. The only reason some tech bro can step in and ruin your life is if you let them keep you ignorant through convenience.
You want to cut out the middle man? Use, and support, open source. Fight to make everything that requires a server, be a server that you own in your own home (or is federated and in your local community). Use, and support, repairable technology… And actually repair your technology!
does not involve technologically regressing.
The fallacy that technological progress is inherently good is simply flawed. You could say “instead of relying on Spotify, and instead of “technologically regressing”, learn open source alternatives and host your own Jellyfin server!”
But what was wrong with “technologically regressing” exactly? A MP3, CD or even tape recording player will: always work, sound great, require zero user friction, never receive updates or security flaws, not depend on a convoluted self hosted setup.
Do you want to listen to music or impress Lemmy? There’s absolutely no argument to be made that requires accepting all tech simply because it’s tech.
Oh look. Lol Amish 2.0
Calling somebody using a retro MP3 player “Amish 2.0” is as moronic as calling you a tech bro neuralink implanted Musk boy just because you’re defending technological progress. Both would be equally ridiculous statements, but the difference is, you actually wrote the moronic comment.
These technology phobes are the next generation who will be scammed out of their pension fund, inheritance or investments just like current boomers who refused to advance along with the world, and they deserve to be hacked, scammed, robbed because they refuse to keep learning.
Learn or get left behind.
Technological progress isn’t inherently anything. It’s just technological progress; an inevitability. Fighting against it is like fighting the laws of the universe, if not outright stupidly phobic.
What defines the “goodness” of technology is how people choose to use it.
Everything more said is just pointless philosophical fluff.
Technological progress isn’t inherently anything
Exactly. So arguing that “you shouldn’t technologically regress” is meaningless.
Fighting against it is like fighting the laws of the universe
Not only is this not applicable to the argument at hand, given there’s no law of nature that makes a CD player implode just because Spotify exists, but this statement is so bizarrely wrong it’s almost hard to take the rest of the discussion seriously.
Exactly. So arguing that “you shouldn’t technologically regress” is meaningless.
Did you lose track of your own argument?
You assumed that I meant technological progress is inherently good. I said technological progress isn’t good or bad, just inevitable. That does not mean that technological regression isn’t inherently bad.
And yes, the CD player did implode, figuratively, because Spotify exists. :)
It’s also a fallacy that technology always progresses. If technology from 25 years ago serves you better than technology from today, it’s the superior technology.
Exactly.
There’s absolutely no argument to be made that requires accepting all tech simply because it’s tech.
False dichotomy and a stupid comic strip making a stupid point all the way down.
If we cared about this issue we would be pushing for the installation of representatives who want to ban planned obsolescence and systems that require you to have the newest, most expensive vehicles, appliances and gadgets. Our current entire government is subservient to and employed by companies that make billions on this manufactured consent to always “needing” to spend our labor on useless junk.
To say nothing of the inherent, massive problem that we made it legal to buy and own politicians.
Yeah no. You just didn’t understand the comic and made a stupid point. It happens.
Okay, ya’ll kids keep arguing about “devices” while millions of people are forced to buy the newest phones so they can get their email and attend job interviews, while mountains of money get poured into politicians who are affording their fifth homes because Samsung pays them in wheelbarrows of cash to keep consumer protection agencies neutered or destroyed.
They are too lazy for that.
Cutting out the middle man does not involve technologically regressing.
But then how can you performatively sit in Starbucks with a mechanical typewriter and then post it on social media so everyone knows how progressive and anti-establishment you are???
What a fantastic post, thank you for linking it!
Seriously though, I do think that it’s interesting that this comic and that essay seem to take up opposite positions*, but in each case they attract more contrary comments than ones that agree. I suppose no matter what you post, any given person is more likely to comment on it if it pisses them off than if it confirms their beliefs. It’s a good thing Lemmy doesn’t reward engagement, or else we’d be up to our eyeballs in ragebait, eh?
*Unless you read the whole thing instead of bouncing off the first paragraph.
on the other hand, there is generally not much to discuss if you have an agreeing position. right?
Sure, but where are the comments disagreeing with the disagree-ers? It’s all attack, no defense.
fair point, but to get there you must go to the comments to begin with, which I believe might be less likely you do when you don’t have something to say.
That’s just false, and is also not the message of the article you linked.
The articles point is not that avoiding enshittification won’t make a difference in the amount of enshittification you experience: To the contrary, it affirms that it likely will! The articles point is that personally avoiding enshittification isn’t an effective way of combatting the ubiquity of enshittification in society, ie “consumer activism” and “voting with your dollars” cannot create system change.
Most everyone here already knows this, and I imagine you also understood the article just fine and don’t need me explaining it to you, but you botched the paraphrase in your link thus seeding a lot of potential confusion and frustration absent some clarification. This is intentionally a thread about personally avoiding enshittification, and that does not imply a rejection of the desire to also end it oestebsibly by other means.
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Yes: We need structural remedies, not individuals opting out. But please tell me what your implied “gotcha” is supposed to be.
Lots of things have always had middlemen. Any sales representative you’ve ever encountered is a commission-driven middleman. Cars, insurance, housing, the guy at the phone store - they all exist solely to make money doing what a well made website is valuable of. If a company has a sales team, they ate unnecessary middlemen.
We don’t need to go back to handwritten mail, FOSS is the way to go.
Writing someone a letter is a very personal thing and you’re creating a memory. Something tangible, concrete, also weighs in on reality. Looking at a piece of paper with your handwrite makes you understand you’re commiting to something.
I’m a FOSS loon but the craze of making everything digital is absurd. I’ve listened to people criticizing others for using paper and a pencil to take down a memo, note or even journaling, when they can do it on their phone.
Is existing so dreadful nowadays? Does the notion of leaving proof of existence scares?
A guy I worked with, not even super closely, left me a handwritten card when he moved on saying it was a pleasure working with me. I did not expect it and almost certainly didn’t deserve it but I still have that card somewhere.
That was nice.
Its nothing to do with contempt for the media, or not wanting to leave evidence of my existence or anything like that, its just that I got shit to do.
I don’t doubt you have a busy life. And that is not the subject at hand here.
What should concern us, collectively, is that we are constantly being pushed the notion that we do not have enough time and that tech is always the solution, when it is not.
I’m going to take a risk and say you write faster than you type and reaching for a pencil is quicker than launching a program.
I’m going to take a risk and say you write faster than you type
Even my 80 year old mother in law can type faster than she writes. Come on.
I most certainly don’t write faster than I type, and sending an email or a chat message certainly doesn’t take longer than finding something to write with and something to write on. There is a big factor of habit and lifestyle - I don’t usually write stuff down, so I don’t have prepared/assigned tools for that, but I use my computer a lot, so I do have software installed and tools/commands memorised.
And, frankly, out of many possible options, plain text is something computers are really good at - there’s basically no risk of running out of space, it’s indexable and searchable, it’s editable, and it’s very universal.
Things do get a bit more complex when you include formatting, and a lot more complicated when you start adding annotations or illustrations, or even just more freeform writing styles, but there’s still a major factor of habit - I don’t know what my note taking would look like if I had a habit of pen and paper, but I know I’m very comfortable with using tech for that, and it works great for me!
I’m going to take a risk and say you write faster than you type
I have a very hard time believing this. From some quick googling, it seems that experienced writers can do 40 wpm, which is really slow in comparison to an (even an inexperienced) typer. Also, typing has no risk of being unreadable, unlike writing (e.g. doctor’s written notes).
and reaching for a pencil is quicker than launching a program.
Maybe if your computer is really slow.
If you have bad calligraphy, practice. Won’t hurt you.
Typing works perfectly fine for me in the vast majority of cases.
An inexperienced typer might be slower than 40 wpm. I’ve seen people type maybe 10 words per minute using only index fingers and looking for every letter. An inexperienced touch typer is maybe 40-60 wpm range though.
I do up to around 140 wpm which many people think is lightning fast but then there’s people who can do 250 and I can’t even comprehend being that fast. Goddamn Sean Wrona.
Just to give some perspective.
I’m going to take a risk and say you write faster than you type and reaching for a pencil is quicker than launching a program.
Maybe for you, but opening KWrite takes only 5-6 key presses and I type much faster than I write
Not to mention the fact theyd be expecting me to write well enough to be able to reread it later. Even if I wrote it at half my typing speed I still would not be able to make that shit out.
And not just you, short hand used to be ubiquitous before the computer, now it’s all but extinct.
Yeah, handwriting sucks. I used to type my homework in a mechanical typewriter, holy cow even that sucked. Going from that to an electrical typewriter that could hold a line in memory was amazing, but still nothing compared to a proper word processor. Wordstar in MS-DOS anyone?
I still like to sketch my ideas from time to time, but all my permanent notes are stored in Joplin, encrypted, in local backup, and synced to the cloud. I can’t afford to lose them, and I can’t afford to lug around with me a heavy suitcase of papers.
I’ve seen young people wishing for simpler times, kids using Polaroid cameras, hunting retro consoles that were already ancient when they were born, longing for music that was way before their time, etc. I get they’re disillusioned with the current state of things, but romanticizing the past is not a healthy way to cope with the horrible today.
There is something to be said in writing a handwritten letter for someone special once in a while. But I’m so glad that I can just pick up a phone and call my brother who lives in another state and chat with him (no long distance charges). If it’s something better said in writing there’s email and texts.
There’s also the aspect of text’s that are more personal that no one really talks about. You can just check in on a friend to see how they are doing without really having any other reason to contact them. I know I appreciate it when that happens to me.
I guess you could write someone a letter asking how they are doing, but if the answer is ‘not good’, by the time you receive the reply days have passed and you probably missed the opportunity to be there for them when they needed it.
This isn’t even considering the environmental benefits of not having to A) produce paper, pens, envelopes, stamps and B) physically deliver the letters.
There’s a lot of things about modern tech that you could criticize, but I don’t think more/better options for communication is one of them honestly.
Yeah you said that, until a doctor hand you a handwritten letter.
Weren’t those a thing to admire? Chicken scratches on the ground could be more readable.
This is what using Linux feels like.
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Is this supposed to be satire? How is print media owned by massive conglomerates, flip phones with no OSS firmware, handwritten letters delivered by a literal middleman, avoiding the middlemen??
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No they wouldn’t. All of those products involve middlemen servicing content.
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I drive a pre-online car I can fix with the help of a friend, PC is Linux mint, laptop is Mac but highly restricted. My android device is silent, my iPhone is used for work only. My music is ripped and downloaded.
I get the idea, but I am kinda stuck on the letter writing bit. They do know that the post getting delivered is kinda built on middlemen right?
Everything you do relies on some middlemen, it’s just about cutting out layers.
You won’t grow your own food, but you can buy it from a farmer, instead of a store who bought it from a franchise center who bought it from a supply network who bought it from a risk management futures buyer who bought it from a farming company who bought it from a farm.
Usually those middlemen don’t open up your mail, read what you wrote, then serve you ads based on that.
GPG.
Also, food delivery has always involved middlemen. Instead of food delivered through an app, it was food delivered after a phone call. But, it was a human middleman delivery driver doing the delivery.
Yeah middlemen have been a part of almost all commerce from the start, every store, every trade and most services are in some way middlemen. I think the comic’s message is good but is attributing the terrible actions of llm to middlemen in error.
I really like the blog and videos of Reject Convenience, he actually does something similar with his own life.
I like this. It’s kind of the same vein as “we like being comfortable.” That’s the main issue. Until we aren’t comfortable nothing will change.
or, you know, you can have best of both worlds with open technologies. tech that you own and control.
i wonder whether we will have to seize the means of computer chip production as well …
Of course we would.
Too bad they crushed all the old cars
I mean, they were worthless.
I see a few comments about self hosting stuff to escape the clutches of big tech, and while all that is effective to a high degree, it is beyond the abilities of the general populace.
Besides, I am also of the opinion that not everything has to be digital or smart.
I relish writing and receiving letters, it is tangible and indicates commitment. Fortunately, postal system isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.
I like reading newspapers and it was sad to see all shops in my neighbourhood stop selling them during or after COVID. It was equally sad to see a lot of magazines not survive that period.
I miss my old TV that was simpler to use and started quicker than my newer smart TV. It does not matter if I disconnect the latter from the internet, it takes its time to load up. Besides, I don’t see any perceivable difference in picture quality from the distance I watch from.
Older laptops, though heavier, were more repairable. In certain aspects, they are better than modern ones: more tactile keyboard, nicer screen ratio (4:3). Of course, the newer laptops decimate the old ones when it comes to performance and screen quality but that is just technology progressing.
I could keep going on with a plethora of product categories. But across all my points, I wish some companies could continue offering such products, at least to a customer base that is willing to pay more just to support the existence of those products.
I was with you until 4:3. You should be locked up.
On a more serious note: Framework laptops. More repairable than the laptops of yore, minus the soldered CPUs which seem unavoidable in laptops now.
lol.
To rile you up a bit, I wish I could say it is a subjective thing but 4:3 is the better option for laptops.
More vertical screen estate, given one would mostly be doing their reading, writing and browsing – activities that are traditionally vertically oriented.
Even most websites just centre their content and leave behind swathes of white/empty space on both sides.
Anything beyond those activities, one should be using a bigger screen (desktop or a TV)^^^.
Jokes(?) apart, Framework laptops are the best option for folks like us as it ticks the most boxes. But it is not available in the country where I live, and I don’t want to import it as it would be meaningless without its broader ecosystem. FWIW, I have dropped them emails every year requesting them to expand their presence in more countries.
Till then, old ThinkPads. They are cheap, have enough spare parts on the market even after almost 2 decades, and even come with the kind of keyboards and screens that I like. :-)
^^^This, unlike the text above it, is a subjective thing
P.S.
I always wanted to use superscript, subscript and horizontal line. Thanks to you, I got to use 2/3. :-)
