When I was a teenager, I found out that some of the packs of poppy seeds at grocery stores had seeds that were shinier and oilier than the other grey/blue/dusty ones. And they sat in clumps, not loose seeds. Turns out there was a lot of opium on those.
Good times were had, for about 2 weeks, followed by ~10 years of bad times.
Meanwhile foster services took a baby away from a good family I know who wanted to adopt it. They gave it back to the drug addicted mother. A month later the mother ended up strung out and back in jail, and they wanted the foster family to take the baby in again.
I suspect the poppy seed story is an outlier.
addiction in the family is a no win scenario. such difficult times for all of you, sorry. some people really do get clean but addiction is a chronic condition
Cool anecdote.
Pregnant people don’t have the same rights as everybody else and it’s not just abortion. Reactionaries need to control what they don’t understand and absurdity is inevitable outcome.
just stop having kids
problems all over resolved
That’s exactly what’s happening. Birthrate dropping everywhere.
obviously not everyone has gotten the memo yet
It’s birthrates dropping below replacement rates, not a re-enactment of Children of Men.
But even in Africa, the birthrates are dropping. The biggest exception at the moment is Israel.
if the early indication of plastics impact on hormones is right children of men isnt so far off
This is how we lose to retarded conservatives and have Trump corruption again
you can leave the retards out of it ^_^
They voted to end democracy, they are retarded as fuck
voted end democracy
i get it, still sounds funny. I’d also remove the r-slur from your vocabulary 🤗
I’m not protecting conservatives for being mentally retarded.
The neurodivergents catching strays but aite
Ffs there was a Seinfeld episode on this issue. 30 years later and we have nothing better?!
Yep. Authorities have basically just refused to admit how unreliable drug tests are, no matter how many times it’s proven
It’s standard war on drugs tactics… They don’t care how many people they hurt, gotta keep that slave prisoner population up
The drug war is and has always been primarily a class war.
Many such cases
There was a MythBusters episode too!
This is literally a bit in Seinfeld, except its a bagel and Elaine doesn’t get to go on her work trip. Guess our collective memory is very very very short.
America’s fixation on drugs is beyond psychotic. God forbid someone actually enjoys their shitty life a little bit. When does congress get its random drug tests? Oh, that’s right, the rules don’t apply there…
There was a guy who was jailed at Dubai Airport because he had eaten a poppy-seed bagel at Heathrow some 8 hours earlier.
How does that even happen? They do drug tests in airports now?
Just got a box of poppy seed almond muffins from Costco. Guess my whole family, kids included, would test positive for both heroin and cyanide.
Why are they drug testing in the first place? Wtf?
Because if a pregnant woman is on something chemically addictive, the baby is too, and that’s important to know when delivering a baby.
And you think this is normal? This is police state shit. I’m so glad I don’t live in that horrible country.
Oh, I remember you. You like baiting people into arguments and shit-talking America. LOL. Get some therapy, man. Rage-baiting online is a pathetic way to deal with your feelings.
I don’t know about their rage-baiting but it’s super easy to shit talk the US and, considering how much damage they do to everyone else, is pretty understandable.
It would be if the above post was about something related to bad actions by the U.S., but it’s not. People talking shit about America here are just using this post as a way to vent their anger about other issues, which is childish.
And before anyone accuses me of anything, I’m no Trump supporter and I understand why people are angry at America right now. Still, that’s no reason to disparage the entire country as a “shithole.”
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Ah, another baiter. You should get some therapy too. When another country’s politics piss you off this much, and you resort to venting your rage online, that’s a pretty good sign you have some unaddressed issues going on in your life. It’s not uncommon for people to avoid dealing with their real problems by becoming willfully preoccupied with more trivial issues that don’t really affect them, like politics.
Thinking this is normal is pathetic. Thinking America is great right now is also pathetic. Maybe when they start rounding your friends up you will finally see the light. Who am I kidding you don’t have any friends.
Why are they drug testing women during childbirth? What kind of fucked up shit is that?
Started to become common during the moral panic around drugs in the 80s and 90s here in the US. I don’t know how it’s legal but this country is very backwards.
Pointing out that a person has taken an illegal drug at some point is one of the top dehumanization tools of conservatives. It is a very potent catalyst when combined with non-whiteness. It has a rich history going back at least to the nixon days.
It has a rich history going back at least to the nixon days.
Before that… At least goes back to the “Reefer Madness” days
Oh yeah, and of course the underlying bigotry and tribalism goes back like all the way.
Like half the conservatives ik be sniffing their keys in the bathroom
How common are psychedelics in the military? Some friends woul have me think its insanely common but I only know from sources outside myself in that case. Just be downing shrooms and/or acid since it’s not on drug tests.
Its…decently common. When I was at huachuca shrooms and acid would go around, there’d be a shakedown every six months at the TRADOC soldiers’ barracks . For long missions it was incredibly easy to run into Ritalin and such. No one I knew did anything like coke or heroin.
Well sure. The Only Moral Addiction Is My Addiction, so to speak.
They should - but only for medical reasons kept confidential. It’s important info for the doctor for the health of the kid. But not the cops.
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In some states, testing and then notifying CPS of positives is required by law. The healthcare staff hate it as much as the patients, because it does more harm than good.
Absolutely horrible but they should absolutely warn people about foods that can make them false positive before any drug tests.
She had a salad, an “everything” salad. Poppy seeds are just a minor everyday ingredient and it would to just not even think of them. Even knowing. Even being warned.
Warning is not enough.
Or maybe we should stop drug testing people and exit the fascist fucking police state.
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Are you insane? This whole thread is insane. The fact that you are OK with this makes this insane.
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Was this woman operating heavy machinery immediately after giving birth?
The factor in common is public safety. In the case of giving birth there is a new extremely vulnerable member of the public. It’s at least reasonable that the hospital needs to know
If the baby was born with obvious signs of drug use by the mother then you might have a case. But drug testing every single woman who gives birth is excessive and fascist.
If hospitals are doing this, women are going to stop trusting them to deliver their babies and start giving birth at home with the aid of a midwife instead.
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Driving, taking school kids on a trip, surgeries, Mars mission, secret weapon testing, etc.
That is such an American take. In my country there are three professions in which the employer can mandate a drugtest: train operator, pilots and captains. Everybody else is in their legal right to (and should) deny a drugtest. What you do in your spare time is none of your employers business.
Commercial truck drivers absolutely should be on that list as should anyone in an armed guard position.
Wait, bus drivers don’t get drug tested?
Nope. By law only employees within the three professions I described above have to comply when asked to take a drugs test. No other profession can be forced to take one.
That’s not to say that a bus driver driving irratically will never be tested - the police can still mandate a drugs test when suspected of DUI and you’d have to comply.
That’s insane to me. I’m all for not drug testing the guy working at McDonald’s, but anyone overseeing the safety of others sends like a common sense group to test.
My dad had a story similar to this from when he worked at a bank. Someone brought in poppyseed muffins for the office, the same morning that the office got randomly selected for drug tests. The higher-ups were really confused when the entire office tested positive for opiates.
I also had a roommate fail to get a job over a poppyseed muffin.
I do think it’s kind of ridiculous that they apparently can’t tell the difference between poppy seeds and heroin. Seriously they can’t figure that out?
Heroin is made from opium poppy seeds, so, yeah, a residual small dose of heroin in your blood looks like the same opium from a serving of poppy seed muffins.
Technically its made from the milk/sap that is excreted by the seed pod, which ends up coating the seeds. Generally most all seeds intended for culinary use are washed and treated to remove the dried leftover sap from them, so really this shouldnt be such a significant issue. However, the seeds are very very small so it’s obviously not a 100% effective process.
They really should raise the threshold for a positive test if a handful of washed seeds on a muffin can trigger a positive, but because most drugs dont survive in your system beyond three days having the threshold be so low is about the only way they will catch an actual heroin user.
Really all piss based drug testing is a useless joke. The only drug that is easy to screen for the use of is weed, unless someone is using whatever substance literally constantly. And most people that use drugs that constantly are already probably not gonna do well in interviews or have good job histories anyways. Overall, they probably catch up more people who eat poppy seed bagels than they do people that actually do drugs
Someone knew there was a drug test and flooded the office with Poppy so they wouldn’t get caught.
That would be pretty genius/because even if they were positive for something else (not opiates) management would still be like “This whole batch of tests is totally scuffed, we can’t use it.”
Galaxy brain move.
I remember at one place I worked the boss was really dead against the drug test and argued against them saying they were unnecessary since there was no evidence of drug taking.
Guess who calmed down when it turned out management weren’t required to take the tests. Yep. Fortunately his whole spiel did delay things about 4 days, so it was still beneficial to us.
Might’ve been the muffin or it might’ve been the Fentanyl Friday team building exercise. We’ll never know!
If it’s how it’s being made out, I’m seriously concerned. However, it’s different if she was already on the CP radar for drug use, and her taking the baby home depended on her providing clean tests. The child needs to come first
This was my first thought. It’s sticky because unfortunately for her this is the type of thing an opiate addict would lie about.
Yep exactly. It may be a fuck up by CPS but it may be that she’s already flagged as a risk so they’ve put the child first.
No, even if there was an existing agreement. You can’t have your kids taken away for eating healthy food.
Drug addicts don’t have less rights than the rest of us.
Eating a salad isn’t the same as endangering your child even if the test can’t tell the difference.
If she’s already been found to be a risk to her child due to substance misuse issues and she’s failed a drug test, then the child should be taken. Further analysis can be done on the sample, but in the short term the newborn needs to be safeguarded. Babies under a year are particularly at risk of death from CP issues, and the child’s needs come first.
This is exactly the arguments used to ban abortions.
If she’s already found at risk of having an abortion she should be held in a safe birthing room until she gives birth then further analysis can be done, but in the short term the fetus needs to be safeguarded…
That’s what you sound like.
Sorry mate, you can’t just take people’s children because you’re worried, even if you’re well meaning. If you want data here you go: children fare immeasurably better in abusive homes than in the child welfare system:
Turns out being with your family (regular, abusive, or adoptive) is FAR better than any other transient arrangement of care provider, almost universally, even for terrible abuse and neglect.
The analogy doesn’t work because we aren’t talking about forced bodily resource donation. Long term foster care benefits is different when we’re talking about a newborn, especially as they’re particularly at risk of unlawful death.
If you have a mother who was known to be a risk to children due to her substance misuse and tested positive for opiates after birth, how do you suggest the baby is safeguarded?
Apparently even if the mother is neglectful because of drugs and the men in her life are beating her and molesting the kids that’s “better” than foster care lmao
Edit: also apparently being addicted to a substance is the same as… Hiding abortions?
Yes that situation is the same as “mother ate a poppy seed salad” very smart, definitely not a ridiculous straw man
So I went and clicked on the study this article is written about, and it does not conclude that children going into the system are more likely to suffer abuse, or turn out worse, than those left with their abusers. It even cautions that “the point estimates are large and relatively imprecisely estimated, with only the delinquency and earnings results statistically significantly different from zero and none statistically different from the conditional mean comparison”
They also said that CS investigators who have higher rates of child removals, have higher rates of long term placement of the children, but that this is more of a function of how much work they do vs colleagues, rather than some sort of personal bias. They further say that the estimates against the median statistics for the general population are not far off from those of kids within abusive households, in terms of long term wealth, and delinquency, which they mention another paper that concludes that most of the long term affects are achieved in early childhood, so by the time the system receives them they are already statistically more likely to end up this way from the abuse already suffered.
They also spend a portion of the study explaining how there are major problems with their study, but that is because most of the data they would need is either very difficult to get, or can only be gotten via unethical means. (laws around privacy make it difficult to get data from organizations, and solid experimental evidence would require knowingly allowing a group of children to be abused)
So this study isn’t saying what you are making it to say. Really even the article from a organization against government interventions of families is saying, which isn’t really surprising either.
The article sites 4 studies not one.
Even at that, lower earnings and higher delinquency rates are exactly the kinds of data point that shows unnecessary intervention, like taking a child from the mother over poppy seeds, which maybe you’ll remember is what we were disagreeing about, is bad for children.
It’s clear that the “take the kids from the parents and investigate later” attitude you’re recommending causes more problems than it solves, even though it’s “well meaning” at first glance.
Eating food isn’t a reason to have your kids taken away from any parent, even one who was at risk of drug abuse. This is a known problem with the tests and they should have confirmed it BEFORE acting, not taken the baby and investigated later.
There are actually 7 studies in that article, and a link to more, however this particular article was written because of the one study that was done, and cited, 3 times.
All of these studies have the same problems, and have lots of criticism about their methodology, particularly in how to get this data. One of the biggest critiques being that they studied kids in bad homes the CS decided to not take in, vs ones they did. This is how they know a child is in a bad home, but not being ethically responsible for them staying. This automatically selects for less severe cases being the stay at homes, and the more severe being the ones taken. Then there are this issues in my last comment, like their estimations being wide. There are also many more when I started finding when putting the titles of these studies into google scholar and adding critique.
Basically these studies aren’t particularly useful because the data is hard to get (privacy laws, parents not wanting to participate, retraction of participation agreements before conclusion of data gathering, etc), the different groupings are already selected based on a varying scales of abuse severity, that it would not be ethical to select groups in a different fashion, and any experimental trials would be unethical. These foundational problems also make meta research faulty from the start. While they can pose some interesting questions, they are not able to make reliable qualitative calls on kids being removed from abusive homes because the ability to conduct this research is just not there in a way it would need to be.
You’re clearly putting a lot of effort into your responses and are being respectful. I don’t think I’ve given you the same respect so far so I’ll try my best.
I agree with the nuances you brought up. I understand you feel it’s better to intervene and be safe than sorry. I see the appeal of that.
I take the opposite stance. I know that the welfare of the child is closely tied to the stress and trauma they endure. In most families that at least nominally love their children that’s related to the stress of the parents. Stressed out parents are bad parents (all else being equal). Taking a child from their parents is a big stressor, that alone will make the child’s life worse.
To me, that’s enough motivation to say that on average the damage you cause through intervention has to be less than the life improvement you gain from intervention.
That’s a hard balance to strike. It can be appealing to say that damage to 100 families is worth it to save one child from irreparable harm.
My personal ethics say that you’re only responsible for your actions. If you don’t act and something bad happens then that’s on the people who did the bad things. On the other hand, if you do act then it’s important to validate that your actions match your intentions to improve the world, using the data you have access to, as best as you can.
I know other people have a value system that compels them to act because not acting can be as much a choice as acting. This type of value system would definitely lead you to intervening more often. I have a hard time internalizing these types of value systems because they’re very problematic at large scale and at edge cases.
I can live in a world with interventionists. But it doesn’t mean I don’t feelthe damage unnecessary interventions cause such as the one in this article.
As long as CPS doesn’t leave the baby to die in a hot car in the sun.
Honestly at this point we should stop offering Poppy seeds in normal goods.
agreed… it consistently has caused problems in drug tests. as long as drug tests are viable for any population, poppy seeds are a nuisance. does it really even add to the flavour of anything?
What? Eat a poppy seed muffin and come back. That shit is delicious.
I love the flavor. Poppy seed cake has been my favorite since I was a kid. My mom used to make it for my birthday every year.
No. That’s the wrong change.
Honestly at this point we should stop using drug tests we know to be extremely faulty to dictate people’s lives.
Honestly at this point we should stop
offering Poppy seeds in normal goods.drug testing people in most cases.It just reenforces the notion that drug use is a moral failing.
From a non-American: the crazy bit seems to be routinely drug testing mothers giving birth, not letting people eat salads with poppy seeds. And then sharing the drug test result with other authorities. Is it just another American ruse to oppress women, especially poor women? Other countries don’t do this.
WTF is a poppy seed salad?
It’s probably in the dressing. Weird to call it poppy seed salad though.
That’s what I’m saying.
Now I’m imagining a spoon full of poppy seeds topped with tiny bits of tomatoes, carrots, and bacon bits.
Crrrrunch. Crrrrrruuunch. No. It’s good! Yummmm
Don’t breathe while eating or you’re gonna choke.
“It’s a dangerous drug”: child services, probably
I’m guessing a salad with poppy seeds sprinkled on it.
I’m guessing poppy seeds with salad sprinkled on top.
Basically heroine
A female hero?
Yes… and her arch nemesis is Poppy Cock.
Then she ate a salad from Costco: an “everything” chopped salad kit with poppy seeds.
Poppy seed dressing is available in grocery story.
How does it end?
Normal well but maybe dea visit. XD
A salad with poppy seeds in or on it. Like so.
