Sony believed that they had so much market share that they could make a console that was leaps and bounds more complicated to code for, which would lock devs in and prevent them from going elsewhere, and they’d just have to suck it up because of said market share. Sony was wrong, and they lost out big time that generation (although they did manage to win the Blu-ray vs hd-dvd format wars).
Microsoft seems to believe they have so much market share that they can force people to upgrade to a privacy invading, ai infested piece of crap, and that everyone needs to suck it up because market share.
I’ve already started hearing wind that people, in statistically significant numbers, are finding alternatives… so is this the same situation as the ps3?
Just a passing musing without much to back up the gut feelings.
Nah it was Wii controller and Wii Sports that Sony lost to. Wii Sports sold over 83M copies, other Wii games like Wii Sports Resort 33M, Wii Play 28M, Wii Fit 22M. Wii controller was what crashed other consoles. That was what put Nintendo back on the top after Nintendo 64 flop. Compare it to PS2 - best Sony console, best sold game is GTA San Andreas and it sold only 17M copies.
What keeps Windows afloat is Office 365 for corporations and companies.
No kid will have Linux at home if their parents work for corpo and are no tech nerds.
They had everything going for it.
The Wii Controller. The Wii Fit. Wii Bowling. That Wii U Streaming device so you could play Wii Sports on the go. They were truly leaps and bounds ahead.
Wii didn’t have a streaming device. Wii U was a sequel console, and the controller was that stupid tablet thing. It connected to the console via Bluetooth, you could only have one connected at a time, and they didn’t sell replacements separately, so if you broke the stupid thing, you had to mail it to Nintendo and wait a month for them to fix it.
Lets not forget too that Sony ever only started making video games at all because Nintendo thought they had such strong market share that they could bully Phillips AND Sony. Phillips ended up being a little bitch, and didn’t do anything noteworthy. But Sony? Sony bent Nintendo over a barrel, and took their lunch money.
And then waited 10 years to make the same exact mistake.
The CD-I was at least like footnoteworthy.
That must of been a long shower thinking about this
For many of us, our brains are rolling things around all day but not necessarily completing thoughts or doing anything useful with it. Then, stop focusing on screens or whatever and get into an environment that has little to no mental stimulation, and all that stuff comes crashing out of “the ether” (back of the mind) and assembling at wild speeds. It’s called ADHD*.
*Obviously, there’s more to ADHD than this kind of thing, and people with ADHD aren’t the only ones who find time to think in the shower.
ADHD - Thought about it before, during, after shower with breaking lines of thoughts that may or may not relate to the orginal. Naturally showers on auto-pilot; washing results my vary.
ADD - Got into shower and accidently activate a trap card in thought process. Prolonged thought with no clear indication of a conclusion. Have yet to wash their body and water running cold.
Your ADD person should consider getting a tankless water heater, financial resources permitting.
I’ve come to the conclusion that Lemmy has the same thoughts in or out of the shower.
While I run Linux on a desktop, I’ve always owned a Windows laptop. I decided last week that instead of ever running Windows 11, I’m going to buy a Macbook and dual boot it with Linux. Yes I know I can run Linux on any number of PC hardware laptops, there are occasionally windows only utilities needed to run firmware or some other proprieatry application. If I can know I can always fall back to OSX for system updates and running proprietary commercial software, I’ll know I never need to touch Windows 11.
May when Microsoft realizes Windows 11 is Vista 2.0, Windows 12 may be great. With Linux and OSX, I don’t see myself coming back to Windows even then though.
Don’t you have problems with ARM not being able to run x86_64 software?
I’ve been in the Raspberry Pi world for awhile and had a taste of both the more limited selection of ARM based binaries, but also exposed to a bit of cross compiling. I’m sure I’ll run into things that are x86 specific, but that will also give me a chance to be exposed to the benefits and limits of x86 emulation on Apple Silicon.
This brings me to cloud compute. For x86 binaries with no chance of substitution/cross compiling, I am planning on spinning up an x86 cloud instance that will likely accommodate a few more of my needs. I’m fully aware that there will be some applications that will simply have no accommodation, mitigation, or substitution on ARM and I’ll have to “go without”. I do have x86 a Linux desktop in regular use.
Lastly, I also take advantage of ARM based cloud compute, as it is SUBSTANTIALLY cheaper than x86 cloud compute. Having a native workstation architecture matching the cloud compute architecture, I think, can possibly make live easier instead of harder.
Worst comes to worst, I can press an old x86 laptop back into service running Linux.
Didn’t Valve just fix this with Fex?
Valve didn’t make Fex, and while it’s a compatibility layer, that doesn’t mean it runs everything.
Just look at Proton and you can see after years (and focusing exclusively on games) it’s still not near 100%.
Yeah, it seems like kind of a headache to try to get Linux distros that work properly on Macs from what I’ve searched at least. Asahi Linux seems like the only one that works reliably compared to all the options available to Ryzen and Intel CPUs.
When it comes to Mac since they’ve moved to their own chips it’s seemed like its better to get a Mac to use MacOS, and Linux is more a fall back option in the future when it loses support with how it can be buggy.
I’d be curious to hear how you end up liking it.
As someone who spends a lot of time on the command-line, I’ve generally preferred MacOS over Windows as my not-Linux OS. But my impression is that for people who like the Windows or Linux GUI, MacOS is a bigger (and less pleasant) change.
And even on the command-line, MacOS is a different *nix distro and makes seme pretty weird choices (launchd, plists, /etc is actually /private/etc, …) whereas you could have vanilla Ubuntu inside WSL2.
I think it’s more comparable to say the same kind of mistake that Microsoft made with the Xbox One. Sold at a $100 premium over the playstation 4 because Microsoft assumed that everyone would love to get a bundled Kinect when actually nobody did.
Also when they announced the stupid DRM that they wanted to use on the Xbox One (console must be always online to work, games on disk to become single use gift cards that get redeemed to a Microsoft account and can’t be used on a different console) Probably Sony won the console war with this single 20 second video even if Microsoft backtracked immediately: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWSIFh8ICaA
With windows 11 Microsoft is doing similar mistakes:
- With x86 processors, assuming that everyone has the money to buy a new computer even if their old one could work perfectly for what they need. Last week I went to visit an elementary school in my country and at the wall in the computer room they still had a poster comparing Netscape and Internet Explorer. They definitely don’t have the funds to throw and buy again 30 computers. Time for Linux to shine?
- With arm processors, making it an exclusive for the expensive snapdragon x. Result: those laptops cost even more than comparable x86 ones, while could be cheaper. Look at the recently launched Minisforum R1. A full desktop computer with 32gb RAM and an ARM CPU that is comparable to a core i5-10400F while costing only $500. But because Microsoft chose to support only the most expensive snapdragon processors, this brand new computers can exclusively run Linux. Time for Linux to shine?
No way, unlike Windows 11, the PS3 was actually quite a good product.
They don’t know nothin bout that PS Triple
When recently onboarding for a new job I heard something I never thought I would hear in my life.
Everyone was given a Mac. Eng, design, finance, HR. Everyone. In my onboarding cohort, someone in finance asked if they could have a Windows PC, which has been the backbone of finance orgs for decades. IT said no. They just didn’t want to deal with Microsoft’s enterprise ecosystem.
I got the same treatment recently. All tech departments were issued M4 Mac Book Pros because that was more cost effective than than dealing with the non-compliant fuckery of W11. Unfortunately non-tech departments got the old inventory and are suffering the abhorrent instability of W11. It somehow refuses to play nice with just about everything in our corporate ecosystem.
Can you install linux on a mac?
If you can get an old final-intel-gen MBP in decent nick, they can make pretty decent Linux machines if you’re okay with not being able to do any internal hardware upgrades.
tiny-dfr is your friend if you happen to get one with that touchbar F-row, which is probably the only big downside compared to a conventional laptop.
*At the moment, only M1 and M2 Macs are supported
Yup
Older Intel Macs are some of the best Linux machines. The newer ones with Apple CPUs are a compatibility nightmare.
There is a distro specifically made for Apple CPUs.
Yes, Asahi. It’s still a compatibility nightmare :(
Yes. And Windows too, on the x86 ones. Those are no different than a traditional laptop.
But macOS is even more locked down than windows?
IMHO, it depends on the company, their data retention and security policy, and what you mean by “locked down.”
I’ve had IT departments that are comfortable giving everyone admin accounts and full sharing access, and IT departments that control every little thing that goes in and out of your machine.
Locked down would probably be a plus for enterprise.
But honestly I’ve never got that argument. In what way is macOS more locked down than Windows? In the hardware that it will run on yes. But for the average user it seems fairly similar on the being “locked down” front.
I mean the hardware thing is huge imo
True, but enterprise hardware has never been something that IT departments really wanted to upgrade. Even back when everyone had upgradable towers under their desk, IT departments just wanted to kit you out with something that lasted 3 years, then was replaced.
Hell, in the before times, when I’ve even wanted more storage, all of my IT departments were more inclined to give me an external HD than open a computer case. They’re busy and they generally want to do whatever is fast.
Sure, but for say the average laptop buyer nowadays not really.
They specifically mentioned the enterprise ecosystem.
I would not be surprised at all if Apple’s MDM system is less painful to use for smaller businesses than Microsoft’s AD and everything attached to it. Hell it might even be nicer for big orgs, but I’ve never heard of one (apart from the likes of Google) not using AD
Also if you’re already dealing with one of those systems, an IT department is probably motivated to not run both and set up interop if they can avoid it
Used to work for Apple in B2B sales.
Granted, this was five years ago, but back then it was sort of the other way round. The deployment at SMB scale worked really well and was also free of charge.
AT enterprise you would need a third-party solution typically, something like JAMF.
When I started at my current job, every new hire was given the choice of a MacBook or Linux laptop. I only encountered one person who chose the former and he only chose that because he thought it’d be funny to use Windows on a MacBook in his professional environment. (We were allowed to do pretty much whatever with our laptops so long as we could fulfill our work duties. My then manager replaced Ubuntu, with which we were provided, with Arch on his laptop.)
Two or so years later, the IT department said that they didn’t really know how to maintain security compliance on Linux, but they did know JAMF. Thus, they took away our customizable Linux laptops and foisted MacBooks on all of us. I’m pretty sure even the Windows guy lost that, but he was an exec so it probably took longer.
I still remember when they announced that this would happen. They said it without a timeline in the company-wide group chat and someone I respected previously and respected more afterwards said “so when are you taking away our good laptops?”
My guess that they’re trying to standardize around a platform that has a) no Microsoft, b) won’t cause product / UX / marketing to totally revolt, c) is well supported as an engineering platform (in Silicon Valley)
That’s nice to see actually. Regular consumers like us don’t have any pull, but businesses do. So I hope more start seeing Microsoft problematic enough to start shifting away to MacOS to get Microsoft to reassess their decisions.
I fear Microsoft will simply not reassess their decisions and we’ll be stuck with Apple, who has historically been much worse about user freedom.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they decide it is because they don’t have even more AI stuff for every single task that their OS isn’t liked more and start shoving in AI into even mouse clicks with “helpful” copilot trying to predict if you are clicking to click or copy and paste.
I don’t know if Apple’s shenanigans are much better with how they’re trying to lock it down
Trying? Have you used a recent version of MacOS?
Shit is locked down as tight as they can get without preventing the ability to be used for development.
As someone who went through this, I would honestly take Window 11’s bs over pos unusable mac.
First time ever I think I felt pain in my wrist from using a trackpad. Absolute clownshow of a UX
Interesting. I’ve got of gripes with Apple hardware (price, upgradability, silly things like notches and Touch Bars,) but trackpads has never been one of them. I’ve always thought the’ve had some of the best trackpads.
What trackpad do you prefer and why?
Oh no the trackpad itself is actually pretty okay. Its the fact that I have to drag a ridiculous length for the subsequent input to match on screen, even with the highest sensitivity setting.
Apple’s ingenious design was to make the trackpad feel like a 1:1 representation of your display, which is why its so huge.
And since way too much stuff in MacOS is functional around mouse clicks, I was constantly swiping all over the place for basic functions.
I think apple users kind of got used to using only their arm, but thats hard for me to do since I’m used to regular old trackpads and mice.
EDIT: Comparatively, I’m fine one something like a thinkpad or even a very cheap HP notebook, so long as the OS or Application UX is cool enough to keep things sensible.
Weird. I never noticed that. I bump mine up a bit from the default, but I don’t max it out. That’s way too fast for me to handle.
I do know there are ton of apps that will override the defaults. I think the OG better touch tool will let you max that thing to warp speed.
I’ll agree that Apple is the big red nose on a much larger clownshow, but… between Microsoft and Mac, I’ll just say that I’ve got a request in with IT for a MacBookPro when funding becomes available. Some of that is because our IT has crippled Windows beyond its usual hobbled state, which is bad enough, and they haven’t hit the OS-X image as hard. But, even so, bone stock Windows 11 on a modern desktop i7 still has HORRIBLE performance issues that OS-X generally doesn’t suffer from. Intrusive virus scanning, intrusive file indexing, intrusive cloud backup… Apple does these things, but generally does them a bit better (though the clowns do mess up plenty along the way.)
I’ve used Ubuntu as my desktop for the past 15 years, it’s a different kind of clownshow - one that I prefer to the other two choices, but it has definite flaws of its own.
Not finance but I always bring this up when ppl argue about android vs iPhone.
Tons and tons of businesses prefer the Apple ecosystem because it just fucking works.
Although, in the v26 operating systems, cracks are showing. A lot of IT orgs are holding off on Tahoe for as long as possible.
This is definitely becoming more common. I’ve seen Macs steadily gain market share in my organization because the Windows machines are locked down in such draconian ways that they become unusable, but somehow they allow much better user experiences on Macs as an option, so most people go that direction.
And then Microsoft made the same mistake with Xbox One+Kinect.
But then quickly stopped making Kinect mandatory. Plus the Kinect was a wonderful piece of hardware.
Seriously they provided a kinect less bundle 6 months after launch
Seriously they provided a kinect less bundle 6 months after launch
I wonder why 🙄.
I would add Xbox One+Kinect+Always online+the used games policy.
one can hope, but I think it’s a long shot. Most of my normie friends aren’t going to switch even if microsoft assigned a live person to sit next to them and monitor their usage. “it needs to just work, and i know how to use it” they say (or something along those lines).
Its because its used in schools, they learn it, they become reliant on it, its in their workplaces, at their home.
Its why Microsoft dont really care if you pirate Windows, the more people using it, the more reliant they are on it, then they cash in big time at the enterprise level. Same with Photoshop etc etc.
If we taught how to use Linux instead…
Yeah exactly! We need to ask Linux in schools! I even tried to convince the headmaster of a school by telling them how they would save money with linux sice they don’t have to pay licenses and hardware last longer, all the software they use is linux compatible (they even use LibreOffice instead of MS office!) I don’t go to that school anymore so i don’t know if they did it but i doubt
Every other version of windows flops or sucks. 98 SE, good. 2k/ME, No. XP, great. Vista,no. 7, great. 8, No.
10…probably the last good Windows unless M$oft unfucks itself and makes 12 good. But I doubt it.
Definitely wouldn’t equate 2k with ME.
Under the hood, 2K is much different from and more stable than ME.
10…probably the last good Windows
Everybody and their mother complained about how bad and privacy invasive Windows 10 was. Hell, the most famous software to fix the privacy issues of Windows 11 is still called Shut Up 10. This backlash is nothing more than people resisting change.
I think the biggest complaint was trying to shove cortana and the 11 upgrade in everyone’s faces constantly. Once you use whatever fix you choose to remove or silence them, Win10 is fine - as long as you avoid installing other M$ services, but those aren’t 10’s fault. And disabling the few annoyances 10 has are paltry compared to what M$ is trying to force users into accepting in 11.
I think the biggest complaint was trying to shove cortana and the 11 upgrade in everyone’s faces constantly
Cortana was definitely one of the complaints but 11 didn’t even exist at the time and Microsoft insisted it never would. Funnily enough, people were pissed about Microsoft shoving the upgrade to 10 in their faces. Other things people complained about were the privacy-invading “quality of life” features, forced updates, the new start menu and metro apps. They also swore on their mothers’ graves to never update to 10. It was literally the same thing that’s happening with 11. You can look up “Windows spyware” with a pre-2021 filter for a blast from the past.
Every other Windows version is basically a test to see what sticks. They usually have huge ideas that push the boundaries of the current technology, and implement it as a prototype to gather data.
Incorporation of web frameworks into Explorer and the desktop, shift to ntfs/64bit, use of gpu acceleration, touch-enabled desktop, now incorporation of AI features. Many of these features also forced hardware vendors to adapt for Microsoft’s vision. So as annoying as it is, it’s probably a good strategy for them. We just need to treat every other Windows as a beta (or preferably switch to Linux).
- Sony won that generation.
- The games are still being made for Windows. The time it takes to lose that whole platform would allow them plenty of time to correct their path.
- Microsoft are crooked AF… They’ve been keeping their monopoly status for over 30 years. They won’t let that change.
Sony objectively did not win that generation. The Nintendo wii did— some gamers don’t want to include the Wii in the running at all, but it was there and it won approximately 101 million to maybe 88 million.
Now, the ps3 made a remarkable comeback and eventually caught back up with the Xbox 360, tying or slightly exceeding it in sales in the very end, but that’s not winning. That’s especially not winning compared to the PS2 generation, where there was absolutely no contest that it won— there wasn’t even a serious rival to the ps2 at the time. It dominated. The ps3 barely squeaking out a second place trophy against a CLOSE third place, when it trailed far behind at first, is not winning the generation. It’s just not.
Sony lost the absolute monolithic dominance they had in the ps2 era. That’s the situation I’m comparing now. Maybe this windows 11 situation won’t echo the past, but it’s a question I’m musing on in the shower.
The Wii sold the most consoles but the 360 had the most engagement. Wii consoles sat in closets or became Wii Sports machines, 3rd parties gave up releasing titles on it due to miserable sales and the only games that sold were Nintendo games. Saying it “won the generation” because it sold the most consoles isn’t really telling the whole truth.
Sony wasn’t competing with Nintendo, they were competing with Microsoft.
lol no. That’s … simply not how markets work.
Well unless Sony was aiming for mums and dad’s who had never played games before yeah no… They were not competing.
The Wii wasn’t Nintendo’s first console. The fuck do you think Nintendo is?
No shit… But the Wii was aimed at a different audience. They used to make playing cards but the PS3 wasn’t competing against that either. It’s about what market they are targeting. Lamborghini makes super cars acts competes with Ferrari, but they also make tractors and that’s not up against the latest Ferrari HyperCar.
lol playing cards… Just admit you have no fucking clue about Nintendo. This obstinant shit is just pathetic.
(yes, Nintendo did make playing cards, but pretending the NES, SNES, N64, GameBoy, and all related consoles and handhelds didn’t exist before is just pathetic of you. Seriously, get a clue. Nintendo have been competitors in consoles and handhelds longer than Sony)
Microsoft is correct.
The PS3 lost out to the 360 because of more than just Sony. The 360 was shilled hard by influencers.
Most Windows users are too stupid to care about the issues with Windows or switch to something better.
People will get fed up and move on. It probably won’t be desktop Linux though. (At least in its current state)
I don’t think Sony intentionally screwed up PS2s to sell more PS3s though so it’s not an equal comparison.
they screwed up not making ps3s have ps2 backwards compatability outside the first lot of them released. its what ultimately caused me to be an xbox fan because for christmas my dad was gonna get the family a ps3 but when he found out they were no longer backward compatable with ps2 games he got us an xbox 360 instead
they intentionally screwed them up to sell more ps2s. i’m (for the last fifteen years, thank gods) on my third.
lol that’s wild you still pushing a PS2. With nothing more modern or just for funsies?
My collection is not in great condition, but i have managed to keep all my old consoles (I started on 2800) over the years. I haven’t tested the snes or earlier in a while, but last I had a TV I could plug them into they worked.
Those ps2 lasers tho. I have spent so much time taking apart and putting together.
That seems like a very different situation.
And honestly you’re not hearing that people in broad swath of numbers are replacing Windows you’re hearing in a very echo chamber like here or Reddit or possibly dig that people are replacing windows it’s still a small number statistically and while it’s slightly growing it’s still not enough that’s going to matter to Microsoft even in the least bit. The average person is not going to know what to do and the average person is not going to understand or even know that there’s an alternative besides macintosh. Nor are they going to attempt to install an alternative version of an operating system. I mean hell I couldn’t even convince my dad to buy a $200 laptop over the $900 gaming PC for the 40 minutes of work he does on computers a week. Some people just are going to do what they do out of habit and not even care.
That used to be true but it’s really picked up momentum. Non-techies at work were talking about switching because they hate windows 11 on the new computers and they don’t want it on theirs.
