The guy is getting roasted in the comments too, especially about being unfair to NDs
Oh fuck not this guy leaving containment and ending up on Lemmy of all places.
Ok so this guy is in my field and is 100% the grandpa he appears to be. The worst part thought is that if you catched this, he talked about a career in “I-O”. Most of you probably don’t know what he’s talking about, but he’s referring to the field of “Industrial and Organizational Psychology” which is the study of people within organizations. What makes this extra bad is that we actually are the ones who study stuff like “how to conduct ethical and high quality interviews”. So he basically violated about everything we recommend in our field why doing this and publishing it. Its honestly embarrassing that this will be many of your first impressions of my profession.
Also the comments are roasting him so badly OP as the comments are likely filled with people who are experts in the subject, so its a deep roast
I do like the bit where he’s refusing to leave voicemails and then complaining about phone tag. Thus exacerbating it by refusing to effectively communicate.
If he had just left a message the first time he called, he wouldn’t now have to be doing the second phone call. Talk about not getting it.
Oh my God please be true that is hilarious
It is, just looks up the guys name and what the field of IO is. If you look at my comment history you’ll see I’ve spoken about my field many times. It is pretty embarrassing.
startup consulting consortium
🤮
He had a pretty reasonable response to the backlash, at least.
Doesn’t change anything. His initial tirade shows what kind of self absorbed piece of shit he is. Everyone’s been inundated with spam calls for decades now. He’d have to have been living under a rock to not understand that. To expect people to just answer an unknown number, or call back when you don’t leave a voice mail saying who the fuck you are and what you want is asinine. But no, HE’S special and if you don’t answer HIS calls your a bad candidate.
Honestly more people in high positions need a vibe check every now and then. Rich and powerful people become so insulated and surrounded by yes-men they think their ideas are infallible. As negative as social media is, one of the nice things is it levels the playing field a bit and gets that brutal feedback straight to them.
(Granted the truly narcissistic and arrogant will just brush it off, but for some, it’ll cause them to reflect)
I’m largely convinced that lack of vibe checking is why the particularly powerful and particularly powerless seem to lose their minds in the same way. You’re about equally likely to convince the ceo and the homeless guy out front that what they’re saying is completely untethered from reality, and they’re similarly likely to make you regret trying.
Less shocking than usual. The rest of his post was pretty on point tbh. If anyone could acknowledge their faults, it’s someone that hires the whole person.
Nothing screams “hires the whole person” like dismissing candidates for arbitrary reasons like being too busy to answer the phone.
I’ve been in so many corporate jobs where they dismiss candidates because they couldnt solve brain teasers or explain what they would put in a ultimate burrito. I shit you not.
Counterpoint. If you give someone your phone number, you shouldn’t be shocked if they try to call it.
Counter-Counterpoint. If you call someone, you should understand that they may be unable to answer to phone at a that specific time, and you should use the tools at your disposal, such as voicemail, to facilitate further communication.
Oh yes. The boomer is at fault also (but will try calling again). His attitude wasn’t my argument.
Nobody mentioned being shocked; your “counterpoint” is countering a point nobody made. You don’t have to be shocked to be busy or avoid answering unknown numbers, ( which is the norm now )
It’s expected that a caller with a legitimate professional purpose would leave a message. Has been since the answering machine came around. This isn’t some sort of novel wholistic approach to someone’s personally, it’s a specific, arbitrary filter to find people who don’t follow normal telephone interaction behaviors.
If you are not going to answer unknown numbers, don’t give your number to unknown people.
This is basic logic. Nothing to do with imaginary “normal telephone interaction behaviors”.
This is insane. Why wouldn’t they leave a voice mail? Why do you expect people to be available at all times?
For example, what if I’m in the middle of a bike ride when this person calls back? Or driving? In the shower? Taking a dump? In a sensitive conversation? On the phone with someone else?
This is the whole point of voice mail. There are plenty of reasons people might not answer the phone, even before the “spam call” issue comes into play.
Your “basic logic” is extremely flawed.
The argument is not about availability. It’s about answering calls from (listening to messages from, calling back to) unknown numbers.
So, I shouldn’t put my phone number on my resume?
If you are not going to pick it up, don’t put it on there
deleted by creator
So I understand you’ve literally never picked up a cellphone. Do you know what they look like?
I take it you often give random people your number then never answer your phone.
Calm down Adam Landers
Do any of you honestly believe it’s unfair to call someone who applied for the job over email? They left their contact information didn’t they? If 6 people want a job and only 1 answers their dam phone…lol, lmao even
I hate answering the phone as much as anyone else but I always answer the random numbers when I’m actually expecting a call from work or a doctor.
LinkedIn is a fucking joke but anyone genuinely outraged by this is being absurd
My only gripe is not leaving a voicemail. Canadidates are not receptionists, so making assumptions of people based on not answering two random calls through the day is not really a good way to recruit talent.
I’m not that old but I’ll answer every call when I can, I’ll call back if you leave your number to my VM, I make it a point to follow up if you reach out,. However I might be on the train, driving, in the shower and can’t answer. Or, I could be having real life fun or doing real life work where I don’t have to constantly be monitoring my phone or looking at LinkedIn HR-AI slop.
not even a job, an internship
I agree it’s fair to expect a phone conversation, but two calls and no message is a dick move
In actually professional interview settings, phone calls are scheduled in advance via email. Additionally, while it is ok but kind of weird for the person to call unscheduled, it is
- Weird and unprofessional to not leave a voicemail
- Completely out of touch to expect people to answer unknown numbers when they’re not expecting some weirdo to call without scheduling when the norm is to schedule
- Completely out of touch to assume they have nothing going on and can even answer the phone the 2 random points in time you decide to call
#3 is a common symptom of main character syndrome.
- I agree, but he does call twice and for all I know the job involves a lot calling at all times of day and he wants to know that you answer your phone. But he absolutely sounds like an unpleasant person to work for.
2 and 3. I disagree, they are in fact expecting an unknown number to call them because they’ve applied for a job. You really probably aren’t doing anything so important that you can’t take a call while literally expecting prospective jobs to call you.
I’ve taken calls at work, during school, on the train. That’s life and if you think you just don’t have to ever answer your phone except on your perfect terms then it’s you who is out of touch.
they are in fact expecting an unknown number to call them because they’ve applied for a job
I don’t know why you think this is the case. It is not normal for professional jobs to call without scheduling and not leave a voicemail. It is in fact completely unprofessional.
You really probably aren’t doing anything so important
You literally have no way of knowing this. There are tons of scenarios where it is reasonable for someone not to answer their phone even of they are expecting a call.
- There are jobs where people are straight up not allowed to keep their phone on them.
- If you are working customer service and in the middle of a customer interaction (which is a very common job for people trying to get internships in their chosen field)
- Taking an exam at school, working in something like a chemistry lab at school where you can’t interrupt the task, etc
- In the shower, on the toilet, changing a diaper, or any other myriad reasons to be temporarily indisposed.
Like it’s really not hard a concept. Why defend this power tripping weirdo who refuses to follow social norms
Pssst, it’s because they’re a powertripping weirdo who wants to excuse the petty powerplays they use… Notice how they started with, “well I answer my phone in all of these situations where it’s impolite”.
Dude’s an asshole finding excuses to remain that way.
you seem like the type that answers said calls in public spaces on speaker phone - after interrupting your headphone-less youtube binge at the cafe or on the train.
deleted by creator
Yeah, he gives them a second chance too, and does acknowledge it being a bit unfair. I don’t find this too bad, really.
Scheduling a phone call is fine. Leaving a message is fine. Doing neither and getting upset that the candidate may have simply not been available when you called is not.
Scheduling a phone call is fine.
Since when phone calls need “scheduling”? It is a fucking phone call, not a dinner with your grandparents.
since marketers and scammers have turned phone calls in to time sucks and security threats, i’d suppose.
my phone doesn’t even ring unless you are in my contact list. my voice mail says “please do not record a message, please text me.”
since marketers and scammers have turned phone calls in to time sucks and security threats, i’d suppose.
I don’t remember when was the last time I had phone call like that. Must have been years ago. Cultural difference between USA and civilised countries I presume.
Since it is between 2 random people who have never seen each other. Which could just as well be a scam.
Ironically if it was your grandparents, it wouldn’t be an issue if they called unscheduled.
Since it is between 2 random people
This is simply not true. A applied for a job to B and B is ringing him about the application A made.
And just how exactly do you know that it’s B calling you? Do you know every prefix and number range that company can be calling from? Could it be a recruiters personal cell, or maybe a 3rd party VoIP system.
So now you don’t know what number it’s from. Maybe it’s a scam then, or maybe you’re working on other things, like being in the middle of class (since it said intern). Do you step out to take every call that may come in and waste your time since there’s no message being left?
And just how exactly do you know that it’s B calling you?
This is not the point. You applied for a job and you are expected to pick up the fucking phone as much as you are expected to read and reply to an email.
The only issue with this guy post is him not either leaving a message or sending a quick email saying he tried to contact them, that’s all.
So now you don’t know what number it’s from. Maybe it’s a scam
You are ludicrous.
To ensure you can reach the person at a time when they are available. If you call unannounced and they don’t/can’t pick up, you’re not allowed to get upset.
they don’t/can’t pick up, you’re not allowed to get upset
Agreed, although I would expect a person applying for a job to be reasonably responsive. I personally would try few times and perhaps send an email saying I tried to ring. But to expect phone call to be “scheduled” is just daft - phone call is the quickest method of contact.
No, you can’t expect someone to be responsive at any random time out of the blue. Every phone interview I’ve had was first scheduled via text or email.
Yes, you can expect someone who applied for the job to pick up the phone if you ring few times at different times.
No one is available 24/7, it is not reasonable to expect them to be. If you need to be absolutely sure that someone will definitely be available at a given time, you schedule it.
Or, you leave a goddamn message like a reasonable person. You know that voicemail was invented for a reason, right?
Ok Grandpa, let’s get you into retirement.
What is NDs?
Neuro-Divergent
There’s no way in hell that’s a paid internship.
In a lot of countries, especially in Europe, internships are not allowed to be paid. If you’re paying then that person isn’t an intern, they’re an employee and therefore should be earning a wage commensurate to that position.
If you are interning at a company and not being paid then you are still entitled to benefits, but if you start getting paid then that causes problems, especially if the amount of money you’re earning isn’t really a very large amount, you can end up worse off than if you weren’t paid and continue to receive benefits.
An intern is supposed to be someone being trained, they’re not supposed to be there just so they can worship at the feet of some self-absorbed asshat. Basically even intern isn’t getting in the way and actively decreasing productivity due to needing to be shown how to do everything, then they’re not an intern.
Why not leave a voicemail? “Please leave your message, name and number and I’ll call you back” has been the standard for as long as I know.
He couldn’t figure out how to 19 years ago and has just been pretending it’s some sort of compatibility test ever since.
No voicemail? Must have been a robocall or scammer or survey.
Almost like it’s a broken form of communication.
“Startup consulting consortium”
Code for broke AF mid-life career-crisis.
I don’t know many millennials or younger who answer their cell phone. Most just let it roll to voice mail. If you want to talk to these folks why not just text them.
I am a millennial and to be honest, I don’t really know how voice mail works or I deactivated it years ago. I don’t like calling very much, but if I get called I am sure it is something official and I usually answer it. Of course not if it is an international number. I very much prefer E-Mail, but I don’t think every millennial doesn’t phone. I don’t want to generalize for a whole group though, so it might be I am an exemption.
I don’t know many millennials or younger who answer their cell phone. Most just let it roll to voice mail.
Sounds like THEY are the problem.
If it’s important leave a voicemail and I’ll return the call. If no voicemail is left I assume it’s spam.
yes of course let me deal with the spam problem someone else made my problem answering every fucking call that tries to scam me instead of letting the caller leave a voicemail if they’re legit.
Or just start picking up the phone when you are looking for a job?
Generally we schedule our interview calls here in the real world.
Generally you may be contacted by a phone when sending a cv and you should fucking pick up.
We live in the 21st century. If they can’t make an appointment without interrupting my day, then they are not worthy of my time.
Sure, try calling, but if you can’t get a hold of a person and you are too self-centered to change communication to something less invasive, then you know the job is ran by selfish assholes.
It is a basic check to eliminate awful companies.
If they can’t make an appointment without interrupting my day, then they are not worthy of my time.
Appointment to make a phone call? You are hilarious 🤣🤣🤣
As a millennial I avoid calling whenever I can, but I don’t hesitate to pick up if someone calls me.
I’ve broken that habit. I get 6 calls a day telling me I’m pre-approved for some financial scam. I’ve tried blocking it, sending it through filters. Nothing has worked so far. They leave voicemails and now I don’t check that because it’s just 20 voicemails about a loan I don’t want.
If I don’t recognize the number I don’t answer.
I mean, when I was hunting for intern level work. I was in classes during normal work hours and worked for the school after. I didn’t have the time to take a random call. Don’t even have to be millennial to miss his call and without a voice mail I assume it was a wrong number or something. This CEO is just showing how useless CEOs are.
Leave a message, asshole!
What does someone’s personal life have to do with their work performance? Why does he want to get to know who they are “as a person” rather than know how they are qualified for the job? This has a bunch of red flags as far as I’m concerned
Hell just thinking about myself I’m an abrasive asshole but I can still do most work just don’t put me in customer service and I won’t tell someone to drown themselves in their own piss. Just let me do my thing and the jobll be done.
Crisis averted to those who did not answer.
Someone of his age and in his position should already know and demonstrate proper decorum, even with “modern technology” like … voicemail? And acceptable procedure, like scheduling important calls. And having a bit of grace. Or a smidgen of empathy. Uh, how is he qualified to be President and CEO when he lacks anything necessary to be a leader?
Even in the best of interpretations, this is someone enormously out of touch. Even with the apology posted below, there’s no way I could or would have confidence in this person’s leadership. It’s one thing to make a mistake, it’s another to be so woefully out of touch with reality for so long that you literally didn’t know that leaving voicemail is a normal thing people do and giving folks a heads up so they expect your call and can make themselves available for it is just good manners at a minimum.
Can you imagine working for this guy?
Dude will have a multiple volume encyclopedia of things in his brain which he assumes you will know, even when he hasn’t communicated them to you.
I’ve worked for someone like that. Their out-of-date expectations can work in your favor too, like if you need a random personal day or want a raise above inflation. Double edged sword.
Kinda cool that he would call directly. That’s pretty human compared to the usual robot and virtual assistant driven cattle calls. But it’s a bit too old school. he really should just leave a message. Or respond to the email to setup a call.
Because gone are the days that people build their lives around random phone calls. Most of the time, it’s considered rude to even take a call without escaping to some isolated location, especially if others could hear your phone ringing first. And of course if the number is unknown it’s most likely spam.
He either needs a time machine or needs to learn how phone calls work in the 21st century.
