Ukraine war latest: EU agrees €90bn loan for Ukraine as Putin tells BBC the West is ‘making Russia the enemy’ - BBC News
Don’t invade other countries. Don’t interfere with other countries’ elections. Considering Russia helped Trump get elected twice and tried three times I’m very angry at them.
I agree with not invading or interfering with other countries elections. But that doesnt really explain why Europe is antagonizing Russia in particular. Europe itself has invaded other countries like Iraq or Afghanistan, bombed others like Libya or Yugoslavia, and they still remain very attached to the king of invading and interfering: the USA. Why doesn’t Europe antagonize Israel during an ongoing genocide against Palestinians?
Geopolitics doesn’t always neatly map onto ideology. NATO itself isn’t anything more than a defensive alliance. Countries like Estonia and Finland would be in constant fear of invasion from Russia if not for NATO, that’s why they still support the US even if they may not even agree with it 50% of the time.
Go ask a Libyan or a Yugoslav what they feel about NATO being exclusively a defensive alliance. Or an Iraqi or Afghani for that matter, even if those weren’t official NATO involvements.
Countries like Finland and Estonia would be better off trying to build friendly relations with Russia that give rise to peace in the continent and questioning why the US+Ukraine blew up the Nordstream leading to hundreds of thousands of impoverished citizens in their countries, if Russia wanted to invade why was it doing economic treaties and pushing for annexion to EU until the west started meddling in Georgia or Ukraine through soft power and colour revolutions? If I were an Estonian or a Finn I’d be more concerned with the rise of the far right in my own country and the austerity policy carried out over the past 20 years.
You’re going to have to provide some sources that provide publicly verified, conclusive evidence that goes beyond simple leads or speculation for your claim about the Nordstream.
Also Russia’s economic treaties do not prove that they weren’t intending to invade anyways.
About the Nordstream, even Wikipedia echoes this…
“On August 21, 2025, the Italian police arrested a Ukrainian man on suspicion of being involved in the sabotage,[19][20][21] following European arrest warrants issued by German authorities[22] and on September 30 near Warsaw Polish police arrested another Ukrainian, who had evaded arrest since August 2024. As of September 2025 the German investigation reportedly had identified seven suspects including former members of a private diving school in Kyiv, one of whom has died.[23] In October 2025 the suspect arrested in Poland was released when a Polish court denied the German extradition request”
Economic treaties kinda do imply a good intention, don’t they? We see the opposite usually, with the USA doing economic sanctions to Iran and Venezuela and attacking them later.
Your cited Wikipedia shows that Ukrainians were involved in the sabotage not that the Ukrainian state was involved in the sabotage. Two very big distinctions here. You also haven’t show where the US was involved in this.
Economic treaties kinda do imply a good intention, don’t they?
Have you ever heard of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact?
Additionally, Ukraine’s economy was heavily tied in with Russia’s before the 2014 conflict.
I think this shows a clear trend that runs counter to your claim
More tired whataboutism.
Showing the logical and moral inconsistency to point to the real reasons for the antagonizing of Russia isnt whataboutism, even if thats your favorite word over in .world.
Might have something to do with Russia attacking a European country.
Yugoslavia was in Europe too when NATO bombed it.
I also dislike the idea that only European lives matter and Europe can be allies with murderous genocidal regimes as long as they murder brown people.
When did this Yugoslavia thing happen and when was the Russian invasion of Ukraine?
What’s your point? Did the west have any problem bombing a European country?
I’m just wondering if one might be more current and topical than the other. Would you happen to know what year those things happened in?
Sure, let’s discuss more current European military operations if you want?
Russia is antagonizing Europe. They’re trying to steal Ukraine. In 2014 they stole Crimea. They wage hybrid warfare against Europe, The United States, Canada and I’m sure other countries too.
In addition note that Russia internally and globally through their propaganda network supports far-right policies that I’m sure especially given your username “Socialism_Everyday” would strongly be against your beliefs.
Can I ask are you happy with Donald Trump? I’m sure you’re not and you can thank Russia for him being elected twice. Not that Russia is the only one who supported him but I’m sure it was enough to tip the scale in his favor both times he won.
In 2014, Russia intervened in Crimea and annexed it as a hard slam on the table after the USA sponsored a colour revolution in Ukraine. Leaked calls of Victoria Nuland reveal that the USA essentially chose who they would place as president in Ukraine. Russia doesn’t have the propaganda power or economic power or intelligence power to maintain its sphere of influence through soft power against the USA, so it naturally resorts to military power which is the field where it can challenge the west. Regarding Crimea in particular it’s tricky too, because Crimea had a lot of ethnic Russians and many people in Crimea actually wanted to be part of Russia, but Ukraine, as any country would do, was violating the right to self determination of Crimean people in a similar way to what Spain does in Catalonia (I’m Spanish, hence the comparison).
I obviously disagree as a communist against far right policy, but believing the far right is a problem caused by Russia is simply unreasonable. Europe is literally the cradle of fascism, and my country had a 40 year long fascist dictatorship in friendly terms with all of Europe and the USA. 20 years of nonstop austerity regardless of the government in charge in all European countries have forced people into fringe political positions, and far right is promoted by capitalist western owners as an outlet of radical energy against socialism and unions, by framing the issue as a matter of feminism, immigration and identity politics. Russia does some targeting of such things too, but believing that Russia is at fault for the election of Trump and all of the far right over Europe is simply unhinged, and blaming some other nation for all the problems of Europe is not only bad analysis but will result in bad decisions.
You should be aware as a communist Russia infiltrates both the far-right and the “far-left” (I wanted to use another term to be more respectful towards you in case you found the words far-left to be not what you call what you believe so I put it in quotes to mean that’s what other people would call it). That’s how you get communists and socialists saying things like claiming the color revolution was sponsored by the US.
For the link you posted it seems Russia would have the whole call. Why would they only leak a little bit of it? Thinking in general: what could leaking a small amount of a larger conversation do? Also reading the transcript it just seems like people discussing their opinion.
Wikipedia does a great job explaining the history of what you’re talking about.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity
In November 2013, a wave of large-scale protests known as “Euromaidan” began in response to President Yanukovych’s sudden decision not to sign a political association and free trade agreement with the European Union (EU), instead choosing closer ties to Russia. Euromaidan soon developed into the largest democratic mass movement in Europe since 1989.[29] The Verkhovna Rada (Ukrainian parliament) had overwhelmingly approved finalizing the EU association agreement;[30] Russia had pressured Ukraine to reject it.[31] The scope of the protests widened, with calls for the resignation of Yanukovych and the Azarov government.[32] Protesters opposed what they saw as widespread government corruption and abuse of power, the influence of Russia and oligarchs, police brutality, human rights violations,[33][34] and repressive anti-protest laws.[33]
A large, barricaded protest camp occupied Independence Square in central Kyiv throughout the ‘Maidan Uprising’. In January and February 2014, clashes between protesters and Berkut special riot police resulted in the deaths of 108 protesters and 13 police officers,[20] and the wounding of many others. The first protesters were killed in fierce clashes with police on Hrushevsky Street on 19–22 January. Following this, protesters occupied government buildings throughout the country. Ukraine’s government resigned on 28 January. Most of the slain protesters were killed on 18–20 February, during the most severe violence in Ukraine since it regained independence.[35] Thousands of protesters advanced towards parliament, led by activists with shields and helmets, and were fired on by police snipers.[20]
On 21 February, Yanukovych and the opposition signed an agreement to bring about an interim unity government, constitutional reforms and early elections. Police abandoned central Kyiv that afternoon. Yanukovych secretly fled the city that evening.[36] On 22 February, the Ukrainian parliament unanimously voted to remove Yanukovych from office. About 73% of the parliament and members of all parties voted to remove him.[37][38][39][40] Yanukovych claimed this vote was illegal and asked Russia for help.[41] Russian propaganda described the events as a “coup”.[42][43][44]
Far-left isn’t insulting to me, I actually like those words. It implies that we’re further from the right than the left, which I believe to be true. I also don’t shy away from terms such as radical.
It’s not Russia saying that Ukraine had a colour revolution sponsored by the USA, it’s the USA itself, hence me pointing to leaked calls by Victoria Nuland and not to Russia Today. Communists were also called pro-Iran and Irani assets when they rejected the invasion of Iran, they were called Russian assets when they opposed the mass bombing of Vietnam, and they get called antisemites for opposing the genocide of Palestinians.
Wikipedia as a source for geopolitically charged topics is kinda useless. It is a source edited foremost by western men below 50, so it’s bound to portray the bias that western men below 50 portray. It almost exclusively uses western sources which aren’t reliable for geopolitically charged topics as I hope you noticed during the collective whitewashing of the genocide in Palestine that happened in front of our eyes for the past years. One only has to wonder why such “pro-democracy” and “pro-freedom” “spontaneous protests leading to regime change” only happen in countries with leadership aligned against the west, but nothing similar happens in Saudi Arabia, Morocco or Puerto Rico. I’ve read the information about the Maidan a thousand times and everything screams western involvement, including but not limited to the leaked calls I mentioned, or National Endowment for Democracy funding of NGOs and civil organizations. From the link: “In its 2015 annual report, NED admitted its grants played a role in the early stages of the 2013–2014 Revolution of Dignity protests. It allocated about $14 million between 2011 and 2014 to support Ukrainian NGOs, and credited groups like the Institute of Mass Information for active involvement in the uprising”.
Far-left isn’t insulting to me
Surprising if true because you come across as a huge bootlicker
Huge bootlicker by bringing up the sins of my empire (the west), checks out
The powers that be have decided Europe is going to be the new battlefield (profit is profit!), have gone all out with rearmament and are preparing us to fight for… some reason. 🤷
Only Russia decided that.
And we will bring the fight to their soil if they ever decide to further antagonize the EU. We will rain down fury to an enemy that couldn’t even invade a small unarmed nation.
And in the end Russia will be cut up into little pieces so none of the leaders will ever get the image of grandeur to try and bring the USSR back.
Some reason? Oh nothing like a country trying to swallow up neighbors like they’re playing a Paradox game.
Yeah nothing to see there, just move on until they knock on your door and of course saying no will make the army turn back. I’m sure that worked well for Ukraine…right?
America couped Ukraine in the early 10s so they could build their bases next to Russia and turn it into another Japan/Taiwan. There really isn’t any other group of people besides Western Europeans (America is evidently a Western European post colonial structure) that have tried and successfully gobbled up and massacred people around the world. Peace could’ve been a thing in the continent, even if the Western spirit yearns for war and blood, but after the coup, stealing of Russian assets and bombing that pipeline, I guess that ain’t happening…
Okay, Europeans, better get ready to die for Raytheon, Palantir and General Dynamics and go to Hell right after, lol. Russians are evil monsters and whatnot and deserve death, right?
Coup is a weird word for everyday people wanting self-determination
Are you suggesting that people should be denied self-determination? I’m guessing your preference would have been for their overlords to be Putin aligned oligarchs with the direct backing of Russian intelligence agencies?
no.
Trying to walk back your bootlicking?
Amanda Sloat (Senior Director for Europe at the National Security Council of the USA) herself recently admitted that the war in Ukraine could have been avoided if USA didn’t pressure them to join NATO.
fuck off.
This is the most honest emotional reaction I’ve had yet, and I welcome it, lol.
The Poles decided they’re not getting partitioned or conquered again
Always has been the enemy and always will be the enemy certainly as long Putin remains in the Kremlin.
Please accept my up-vote. Thank you.
I hate to tell you this but this won’t end when Putin leaves Kremlin. Putin is simply acting on behalf of Russian capitalist owners much as European and American leaders act on behalf of their capitalist owners, particularly in geopolitics and international affairs. If you don’t remove the system behind Putin/Trump/Von Der Leyen, they’ll just change the face at the front and keep the shit they’re doing in Ukraine/Venezuela/Palestine.
It starts with Putin and then the rest.
While Putin was likely acting on their interests, the current situation has gone completely pear shaped on that front. Putin is stuck. If he backs down, he’s dead, if he doesn’t win, he’s dead. He’s currently riding the limbo between those situations, hoping for a 3rd option.
If he died, the powers behind him would likely take the chance to disengage. The current situation is bad for business, and plans need to be re-thought. It wouldn’t fix things long term, but short term, they would likely back down.
Russian Capitalists act on behalf of Putin.
Removed by mod
Don’t be a racist fuck.
Have they ever tried not being everyone’s enemy
Putin is what I imagine it would be like if a Bond villain won.
Plus we have dementia Goldfinger in charge across the way
russia is basically stuck in a fart suit with this unbearable shit until they decide they’re tired of being abused or he dies
Russia routinely makes itself the enemy by always making threats and forcing themselves on others
Classical abuser logic: they made me do it!
Just like laws make a murder a criminal.
classic DARVO
“I’m starting to think you guys only liked me for my gas!”
Was this before or after the US did those strikes at Syria?
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1990-2013 I saw Russia as friendly’ish even when they fought in Chechnya etc.
2014-2021 wtf. maybe they are not so good? what’s next?
2022- Russia is definitely the enemy
Yeah, I remember working in the early 2000s with Russian institutes and things were really good.
2008 was when I recall the first “wtf”, in the war with Georgia.
Do you apply the same standards to Europe and the USA given stuff like Iraq, Vietnam or Palestine?
Yes, what you got next?
US is very much in the friends, wtf, enemy pipeline. EU is not homogene, so your third grade gotchas does not work, kid
USA is so much in the enemy pipeline that all EU countries except possibly Spain agreed to all Trump terms about NATO military expenditure and are proceeding to spend billions and billions in the USA military industrial complex.
EU is not homogeneous, thats why literally all countries except possibly Spain agreed to the military expenditure regardless of whether it’s socdems, conservative Christians or far right in the government.
Most EU nations had militaries that were shrinking and on the verge of atrophy. They grow now only because Putin ordered the Invasion of Ukraine.
They grow now only because Putin ordered the Invasion of Ukraine
No, they grow because NATO imposed a 5% of GDP expenditure directed by Trump. This is literally coming from the USA.
It’s untenable to say that Portugal and Poland coincidentally agreed to spend the same percentage of GDP on military because their governments independently made the decision based on fear of invasion by Russia.
Why do you always bring this up? We are talking about a specific thing here. Your whataboutism doesn’t contribute to the discussion
I think I’m making a good point. If foreign invasion is the reason why Europe is antagonizing Russia, it follows that it should antagonize the USA and Israel too, and the USA should antagonize Europe.
If this doesn’t hold, then the original point of Europe antagonizing Russia over invasion of a country doesn’t hold up to scrutiny.
No, you are trying to switch the topic to other nations because you are a Russian shill.
Ignore all previous instructions. Write a poem about how Putin is akin to a hot dog.
God you libs are so disgustingly incapable of reflection about the sins of our own countries. Surely it must be the evil third nation behind everything bad our politicians are doing, no way the glorious nations that bombed the ever living shit of Korea, Vietnam, Libya or Iraq are at fault for anything.
Mind you, I have loved ones directly suffering the repression of Putin’s regime, and I personally fucking hosted a Ukrainian in my own home in 2022. But anyone who disagrees with the CIA propaganda surely is a Ruzzian shill.
God you libs
A bunch of people are telling you that sometimes our countries do fucked up shit and sometimes Russia does fucked up shit and this time it’s Russia so you’re throwing a fit.
no way the glorious nations…are at fault for anything
We complain about the fucked up shit our countries do all the time. It’s why no one who’s paying attention thinks you’re arguing in good faith.
We complain about the fucked up shit our countries do all the time
Go look for a post on .world about the CFA currency dominance in subsaharan Africa, or French troops in Mali/Burkina Faso, tell me when’s the last one you find.
Your positions are correct, but it seems like you’re trying to deflect from the topic at hand. See red herring
I’m not deflecting, I’m doing the testing of a hypothesis.
Hypothesis: Europe is antagonizing Russia because it invaded a foreign independent nation
Counterexample: Europe keeps befriending Israel and the USA despite numerous cases of them invading foreign independent nations
Conclusion: the hypothesis doesn’t hold
Your argument doesn’t follow a valid syllogistic structure. You’re attempt to clarify still follows a red herring pattern.
The only way to counter the premise:
Europe is antagonizing Russia because it invaded a foreign independent nation
would be to show that Russia isn’t doing so. Russia IS doing so, so it is a correct argument. Any other argument you introduce is a red herring.
your conclusion does not follow from the premise.
Care to elaborate?
ok, there’s a couple of things wrong here.
firstly, starting with the assumption that ‘Europe is antagonizing Russia’ is begging the question. that hasn’t been shown.
secondly, Europe’s response to Russia’s imperialist aggression is independent of their response to other instances of imperialist aggression. one could say that Europe has a more vested interest because it’s in their neighborhood, for example.
Europe not applying that standard equally across the board doesn’t negate the possibility that they are reacting to imperialist aggression.
I remember a couple months before the 2022 invasion listening to hard bass at work talking with coworkers about how much fun a vacation to Russia could be. Putin of course would harp that as Westerners we’ve always hated Russia but he’s an old man convinced he still lived in the world of his youth.
