US President Donald Trump’s abduction of Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro on January 3 has emboldened him to proceed with the annexation of Greenland, a Danish-owned, self-governed territory, spelling the effective end of NATO and furthering Russia’s war aims in Ukraine, experts tell Al Jazeera.
“The move on Venezuela illustrates the Trump administration’s determination to dominate the Western Hemisphere – of which Greenland geographically is a part,” said Anna Wieslander, Northern Europe director for the Atlantic Council, a think tank.
“If the United States decides to attack another NATO country, then everything would stop – that includes NATO and therefore post-World War II security,” Frederiksen said.
“The pandering to Trump has been an element of our strategy over the last year, leaving observers hoping, but not entirely trusting, that another element of the strategy is preparing urgently for the final rupture with the United States,” Giles said.
Giles told Al Jazeera that Europe’s best option was to place a military deterrent on Greenland now, believing that putting allied troops in the Baltic States and Poland after 2017 deterred a Russian attack there.
Maybe America has to be understood as the logical conclusion of Western European geopolitical and moral ideology, and maybe it has to hurt Europeans (I’m French living in the UK, DW, it’ll hurt me too but such is life) for us to finally consider some sort of ideological revolution that produces something that’s diametrically opposed to what’s currently embraced. I mean, it’s not like we wouldn’t be doing whatever America has been doing for at least 70 years if we had their power level, lol, history shows that clearly, so for this all to end because it must (“THIS SICILIAN THING THAT’S BEEN GOING ON FOR 2000 YEARS!”) our minds have to undergo a drastic collective change.
It’s peak neolib capitalism.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”
Europe is kind of just a retired United States, the pension scheme is the us defense budget
TBH the change can be pretty small, albeit revolutionary.
Actually embrace the humanitarian values of enlightenment. Gain some class consciousness. Remove the dictatorship of the capital by seizing the means of production. Consider other peoples of the world as equals and allies rather than dumb weaklings to be taught a lesson and/or exploited.
It all fits in a very long and established european tradition. Remember that Marx, Engels, Liebknecht, Luxemburg, Kropotkin, and Lenin were all europeans.
The humanitarian ideals of the enlightenment were used to justify colonialism, they simply said “look, those people don’t have our humanitarian ideals, we need to take control of their society/resources.”
Yeah, agreed. Hence
Consider other peoples of the world as equals and allies rather than dumb weaklings to be taught a lesson and/or exploited.
If it really happens, shut down all the US military installations in Europe and European territories. The Red Coats should tell the US to leave Diego Garcia too.
They can’t even shut down the base in Greenland. There’s a reason DeGaulle kicked the US out in 1966. And why Okinawa residents have been lobbying to shut down the local base for decades.
Europeans have been under military occupation since the end of WW2, telling themselves the gun pointed at the back of their heads was aimed at the USSR, even after it dissolved.
Now they’re going to have to deal with a foreign hostile occupation whose roots have grown deep
End of NATO. Putin’s wet dream.
I mean Donald Trump is working for Vladimir Putin come on
Power couple of the century
…and an EU-China alliance, Trump’s nightmare alliance, with China mediating and resolving disputes in northern Eurasia, including the Russia-Ukraine war, likely with mere words.
He should know that if he blows up NATO, it’s coming.
US analysts should tell him that this potential alliance would have several times the industrial capacity and scientific potential of the US, and if that doesn’t count, it would also have ~ 1000 nuclear warheads.
(The alliance would be stable since potential allies would be far from each other, safely separated by a large nuclear armed gas station which also claims alliance with China, but China supplies drone parts to both sides.)
China is not some all powerful country, nor is it altruistic.
The end of Russia’s war in Ukraine is the end of Putin. Do you think Putin will basically kill himself because of a word from China?
And you’re thinking too small. There is a lot of diplomacy going on between every country in the world. Mark Carney is in China at this very moment. There are other delegations in India. Japan, Korea, and China are working together a little more now, and they hate one another. Everyone is making temporary alliances. It’s shaping up to be US and Russia vs. the world.
Trump is trading NATO, the most powerful alliance in history, for Russia, a collapsing country.
China doesn’t want world domination. It just want to look out for China. However, what it considers China and what everyone else does are very different.
China is no different from the US.
Trump is in power because Americans have been made to think they need a strongman to make the economy work and protect them from the evil foreigners that are trying to screw them over.
Xi is in power because Chinese have been made to think they need a strongman to make the economy work and protect them from the evil foreigners that are trying to screw them over.
They are the same.
I’m in Canada and I see Taiwan as being in a similar situation to us. Trump wants Canada to be part of the US. Xi wants Taiwan to be part of China. The Taiwanese are facing the same struggle as us, and because of that, they are our brothers and sisters.
Fuck Xi and fuck Trump. They’re no different. We have to make deals with China but we know they’re the same as the US. They’re further away so not an immediate threat to us while the US is. That’s the only difference between them.
He’s not trading anything. You know that joke:
- People: We need healthcare!
- GOP: Fuck off!
- DNC: Fuck off! #BLM #woke #believewomen #imwithher
They could’ve taken over Venezuela and said it’s about democracy. The media was poised to make that the story. Europe slid in with “well, he is a dictator…”. They even had a Nobel peace prize recipient ready to jump in and take over. Hell, half the people on here were willing to go along with it. But for MAGA, doing evil isn’t enough anymore, you have to rub it in, you have to gloat about it, you have to be mean. Giving Israel weapons isn’t enough, you have to publicly tell them to kill everyone. It’s not enough to twist other nations’ arms in trade deals, you have to literally extort them. It’s not enough to round up and deport brown people, you need to have camps and cages and then film it and put it on TV, and laugh at them. It’s not enough to ignore protesters, or have them suicided, you have to murder them, and do so openly and proudly.
Dumping NATO, to Stephen Miller, is not a sacrifice but an unshackling. Now they don’t even need to pretend anything they do is for some greater good, even if they weren’t too crass and stupid to pull it off. They believe they’re in the endgame, and they’re just taking what they want.
Heard this one?
People: We need healthcare! GOP: Fuck off! Democrats: Don't vote GOP, you'll be paying more for healthcare, they'll take away people's rights, and we may even lose our democracy Leftists: Both sides! #uncommittedAfter the election:
People: We're now paying double for healthcare and there are masked men in the streets disappearing people GOP: Fuck off! We're invading countries now! Leftist: Both sides! WHY ISN'T CHUCK SCHUMER PREVENTING THIS!!!! Democrats: FFS we don't have any power because you didn't vote for usYou’ve already killed the the Democratic party, now you’re just beating on dead corpse becuase you’ll do anything other than oppose the people actually doing the bad things.
Tell your bullshit about how accelerationism is working to the families of the ~100 people Trump’s special military operation killed in Venezuela. That’s modern leftism for you… killing people in the developing world is somehow good because it helps leftism somehow and it hurts the Democrats (the real enemy!). How are you any different from MAGA at this point?
I’m sorry, you seem to have confused a joke meant to illustrate a point for an invitation to have imaginary conversations with the gaggle of strawmen you have living in your head.
I’ll leave you to it.
Yeah MAGAs also do the “I was just joking!” thing when I explain how stupid the things they post are.
You have more in common with MAGAs than you think.
…Man, those literacy stats about the US weren’t wrong…
We are seriously in a good position right now in EU believe it or not. Trump has been a wakeup call, and we are already mobilizing faster than - ever? - however, imagine being Canada, australia, Japan, etc. Countries far far away from Europe. If nato dies, Europe makes a new defense alliance, focussing on having troops on the, continent. Canada and australia needs to come closer to Europe. Trade wise, militiary wise, political, if they don’t wanna get sucked up in the strongest superpower nearby, even if they have anything in common or not.
We’re trying to come closer in all those ways. The “don’t buy US made products” has spread everywhere and I hear it’s starting to make an impact.
I’m worried about our southern neighbours… I see the news and it feels like they might have a civil war on their hands.
Yeah, its fucking disgusting what usa has become. But we now know how they “stand” it would be a killing blow for canada if usa got greenland. I say let canada control the north atlantic, militiary wise, in a cooperation with EU. (Since Greenland doesn’t have a militiary. They will rely heavily on such an alliance)
Here is how the Greenland issue will likely play out. Trump doesn’t live in the real world and is too dumb to see the downside to what he is doing, so he will get Greenland one way or the other. The reasonable people on the other side see this, and have poor options. Either they sell Trump Greenland, notwithstanding all the reasons that this would be improper and unnecessary, or they stand firm and Trump moves in and takes it, which would effectively be an attack on a NATO country and trigger article 5. This would end NATO as we know it, as the U.S. would no longer be part of it (which Russia would love to see). If Denmark sells Greenland to the U.S. to appease Trump, they get some money and the fig leaf of NATO remains, as there is no attack on a NATO country. I believe that the latter course is more likely, as appeasement will disrupt the status quo much less, and history shows that appeasement of fascists is usually the first course of action (see, e.g., Chamberlain’s approach towards Nazi Germany in the 1930s.) Of course, this will only embolden Trump and his followers, as it will be seen as Trump’s great success.
Incidentally, if Trump were smart, what he would do is immediately start building up the base that the U.S. already has, and then get Denmark to agree to several additional bases, ideally in every town on the island, ostensibly to protect U.S. security interests. Then, use the bases to start pumping money into the local economy. Each base would have construction projects, personnel to feed and entertain, etc., etc. Suddenly, the locals would see dollars flowing into their pockets and their communities prosper. The U.S. could offer each citizen of Greenland $1 million tax free dollars if the country joins the U.S., and pressure Denmark to let Greenland put it to the vote. The population of Greenland is only 56,831, so the cost to purchase would be less than $57 billion. If Denmark balks, simply declare Greenland part of the U.S. and it’s citizens U.S. citizens, and make Denmark the bad guy for trying to strip Greenland of it’s right of self determination. If it goes to the vote, it seems highly probable that a majority the citizens would take the financial windfall and Greenland would become part of the U.S… On the outside chance that the citizens voted against their own financial interests, well, the U.S. would already have a ton of military already in place, and show its true colors and take it anyway. With this strategy, the U.S. could at least pretend to be the good guy.
If he was smart then he would just start mining, no one is opposing it.
If he was knowledgeable, he’d know it’s a dead end trying to mine stuff up there.
Nobody cares about mining anything in Greenland. Nobody actually cares about any resource in Greenland, or even the people in Greenland. Not strategically, anyway, before anyone gets it twisted. Rare earths, fine, whatever, that’s just a marginal distraction.
Greenland is the fence post on one side of the gate which allows NATO to control Russia’s potential naval passage into the Atlantic. At present Russia functionally cannot project any naval force to western Europe without literally going the long way around, all the way around Asia and Africa and past the tip of Cape Town, etc. Not at all coincidentally, the vestiges of the Cold War are why the US has always been so keen to maintain a military presence on Greenland in the first place.
With Greenland out of the picture and the US theoretically also on Russia’s side rather than NATO, Putin stands a much greater chance of being able to get his warships into the Atlantic by hugging the coast of Greenland and then subsequently threaten the rest of Europe.
There’s supposed to be a huge untapped oil field that Greenland and Denmark refuse to explore. That’s what Trump is after.
So Greenland is vital for Europe’s security, but not exactly for the US…great…
Yes. And also while we’re at it, just remember who has been whispering in Trump’s ear all the goddamn time.
Man if the US offered me 1 million to take my province I’d change my tune so fast though. I’d be like “sweet thanks you fat idiot fucks” and then I would use that money to move somewhere far away from this stupidity immediately.
You really think they would give the money to them before Greenland joined? And in fact - once it joined who actually guarantees they’d get it, lol. They might just claim, this is part of the infrastructure the US provides for Greenland
I do not think they will be offering everyone in Greenland a million dollars.
He already offered 100k, but what is an offer from a grifter well known for not paying his bills worth?
Yeah exactly.
They won’t provide any infrastructure though. They’ll be happy to say it’s for the “service” of administrating Greenland and for the “security” provided.
No reason you couldn’t take his money, then vote No. That’s what I’d do. I don’t owe any loyalty to a corrupt, treasonous, racist, rapist, pedophile. He’s cheated countless people in his life, I have a moral responsibility to cheat him back, and take his money away from him.
Take his money, vote no, leave, move to a country where a million dollars lets you live like a king and be served by beautiful phillipino boys until I die. Thats my plan with my hypothetical that will never happen because
One: A capitalist would never offer that level of economic freedom to a working class body of that magnitude and
B: I don’t live in Greenland.
Valid.
The U.S. could offer each citizen of Greenland $1 million tax free dollars if the country joins the U.S.
Money only gets paid out if Greenland joins the U.S. in this hypothetical. And it would go to all citizens, not just people who voted yes.
Anyone believing in getting money promised by a grifter well known for not paying his bills deserves to be cheated.
If the money is coming from Trump, I’m going to be like Chuck Berry or Aretha Franklin, and insist on payment in advance, in cash, delivered BEFORE I vote. And my vote remains a secret, or no deal.
It would be hilarious if everybody took the deal, and voted against him anyway.
At least, it would be hilarious until he got enraged, and bombed the entire country in revenge.
You really think there’s anywhere that’s far enough away?
Cassian Andor found that out
Nah but I think it would be more fun to ride out in like Denmark or some shit.
Theres some countries who are certain to remain neutral, Vietnam’s foreign policy has always been “don’t get dragged into another war”, Kazakhstan makes a lot of money helping Russia evade sanctions, Colombia is basically un-invadable. New Zealand is expensive, but they’re pretty uninvolved AFAIK.
Moving to the Netherlands would paradoxically allow you to be high enough away.
Nobel price of …war
Nobel war prize
Experts… who the fuck are these experts.
They’re not experts they’re just some random
think tankmilane actors with a political goal which means they’re just arrogant people who like telling everybody else what to do largely with zero qualifications.
I’m one of those experts but I’ve been saying Europe should prepare for end of NATO ever since Trump won for the first time.
Meaning while, USA citizens are waiting for mid term elections! Trump most likely will leave or court will do something. Sit and watch, do nothing.
You would do the same if you were a US citizen. Talking tough from a distance is just as pathetic as our inaction and general inability to magically fix our country. Waiting for elections and not escalating beyond peaceful protests is all we can do without handing them the propaganda they need. Peaceful includes open carrying like the black panthers.
If someone were to actually assassinate the orange one, you guys are way more fucked. The retribution campaign would go way beyond Greenland even if it makes no sense.
Don’t your knees hurt for being on them for so long?
Man the fuck up and stop trusting billionaires who only care about money will save you from billionaires who only care about money and raping children.
Edgy of you to assume all of these things.
In that case then, do something at those elections. But do something.
Do something instead of throwing out excuses everywhere.
There’s other things that could be done, if the claims that most are good people are correct. Such as a quiet ‘down tools’. But that can’t be done either because jobs and healthcare right?
It’s fine for Americans to shoot back at others about the harsher end of action, such as revolution but they don’t even try and look for excuses on the easier ways out.
There isn’t enough support for revolution despite what many people here believe.
Internal violence is always used by fascists to consolidate power. So people who aren’t stupid don’t use it. Shooting an ICE agent would be used to expand their protection for example.
There isn’t more ‘somethings’ to do. Voting and protesting is all we really have.
The problem is a large portion of this country is actually supportive of what’s happening. People who are mad are a minority.
There isn’t enough…
Internal violence…
Yes, I agree to every sentence in those two paragraphs. I don’t advocate for it and my comment didn’t.
voting and protesting is all we have
Yep, which is why I replied do something to the voting point.
You need to do something that grinds production, like stopping work and trading, that forces those in power to use the standing institutional rules to remove the two or three needed and you know who they are. The rest then becomes an incompetent Republican administration. Yes, it sounds insane and impossible; it probably is. It requires hardship which Americans are not willing to endure.
You voted them in. That ship has sailed. Your nation needs free and fair midterms at all costs.
I’m not advocating for violence, at all. I never have and I don’t want to see the US fall because the loss is incalculable. I do advocate people take whatever steps necessary to defend themselves. I support the organised protests but I don’t think that’ll be enough; pockets need to drain. The system needs jamming and the only way to get those that can act is to jam it.
Voting and protesting is all we really have.
Voting is not going to mean anything. You are putting far too much undeserved trust in the remaining democratic institutions.
Protesting only works if voting works, otherwise who are you convincing with protest? It’s masturbatory.
You need a general strike, and you need protests with clear open carries. You need to step it up so that the people in power can see the power of the people. Unfortunately you’re not ready or willing to do this because the risk of violence is very real. And it seems the American people are not ready to risk their lives to fix their country…yet. But their opponents are willing to do that to break it. The good Americans are going to come too late to this realization.
If someone were to actually assassinate the orange one, you guys are way more fucked.
Why? Who would be ordering it, Vance? MAGA have one figurehead and a bunch of background characters that no one really likes. If Trump died it would be over. The GOP knows that, which is why you’re starting to see some pushback against Trump and his more insane ideas. They have started to realise that they need to be politically palatable in a post Trump world.
You would be shocked how many people knew the WMD thing was a lie and yet, still went to war over it. It will be the same type of behavior if he were assassinated.
Im not sure still they won’t fall in line after he dies. The bubble they live in is more insane than you realize. I grew up in it.
Why would Trump leave that’s antithesis to his entire personality. Sticking around long after it’s clear that everyone hates him, claiming some sort of conspiracy, that’s more his style.
The feudalists behind Trump made the mistake to give the population a chance to bring him down once… they won’t repeat it. Also, if I remember correctly the SCOTUS granted the POTUS immunity for any action commited during his presidency. So whether Trump an others will be helf accountable his highly questionable to me… even if he loses the election in 3 years.
Trump will be free but every fucking one of his minions will not … because they don’t have the same immunity.
If there’s a power shift after midterms and the Dems make inroads, be prepared to watch Trump scream bloody murder 'cause he can’t always have his own way.
dems aren’t going to do shit lol
Unfortunately I (non-american) hear close to nothing from the Dems since ~ 12 months. Given their inactivity and assumed unwillignes to figth against the rise of Trumps dictatorship I have little hopes that the midterms change anything… also given that Trump seems to ignore the parliaments whenevwr he likes.
The same rulings mean that a future president can just lock him up without trial… Which probably means there won’t be any future (non-Trumpian) president, unfortunately.
I knew this would happen eventually, I just thought it would happen after my lifetime
Germany needs to boot the US out of all the military installations there.
Germany helped the usa become the beast it is and is the inspiration for the current situation (funny when the usa inspired Germany first).
The right wing parties in Europe will help the usa.
Putin is a genius
Yep, he played everyone perfectly. Used economical ambition to neutralize Germany, nationalism to defeat UK and stupidity to take over US.
I think it’s more that Americans are stupid.
Putins had his hand in ensuring that happened for the latest generation as well.
It was Americans that created a culture where people will believe anything as long certain symbols are referenced. Throw in a flag or a cross and they’ll believe any bullshit.
Americans made themselves stupid, Putin just exploited that stupidity.
Too much lead poisoning makes people dumb.
Americans are taught at a young age that a piece of paper they’ve never read with pretty about freedom and equality written by slave masters makes them the best country in the world.
It’s always been a stupid country.
He brexited, too.
Nah that was British boomers being stupid.
And he played their stupidity just right.
Russia just employed a firehose of falsehood tactic. That could only achieve a low level distrust of government and institutions. It was American social media algorithms that matched up the falsehoods to the people that would believe them and presented people with an endless stream of false but consistent information. I don’t think the social media companies were colluding with Russia (that would be evil but not stupid) they were just maximizing profits for the shareholders without any consideration for how what they were doing would negatively impact society.
What Glavset did wouldn’t have been impactful had it not been for the stupid greed that permeates American culture. It’s still happening, though obviously Russia is less of a factor, and it’s more China and Iran doing these things now. Though Iran is less significant than China and may be out of play soon enough. But the damage is done and the US will never fully recover.
Calling him a “genius” is overdoing it, i think. He just interpreted the signals of the time, before anyone else did. He guessed correctly that the west is too fractured and weak to defend Ukraine.
They are a nation who stereotypically love playing chess…
He could have waited a few more years before his special military operation for his Trojan horse to get back into office. Wouldn’t call him a genius entirely.
but it was just three days to kyiv
That would be the ultimate win for Putin: Destruction of the NATO.
Some countries in Europe are starting to, and given what Europe is, that’s probably the best they can start doing.
At least because they made sure to show us their hand at their latest sonic weapons and information warfare used to shut down weapons that was used in the Venezuela attack. They would probably go the same route with Europe, trying to behead whatever strategic target is going to get them what they want, because they can’t go for a prolonged conflict either.
I hope the US loses all international rights if this happens. It has too many.
Might is the only right in the year 2026.
