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Do not confuse Technocracy with Socialism. While Chinese Technocracy is Socialist, Technocracy alone can be a massive problem.
Lotta comments from accounts a few days old, or with less than 50 comments in several years. Interesting.
I’m so tired
Is it? Why is China “bad”?
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There is no genocide of Uyghurs. Uyghur genocide atrocity propaganda akin to claiming that there’s “white genocide” in South Africa, Christian genocide in Nigeria, or that Hamas sexually assaulted babies in Operation Al-Aqsa Flood.
In the case of Xinjiang, the area is crucial in the Belt and Road Initiative, so the west backed sepratist groups in order to destabilize the region. China responded with vocational programs and de-radicalization efforts, which the west then twisted into claims of “genocide.” Nevermind that the west responds to seperatism with mass violence, and thus re-education programs focused on rehabilitation are far more humane, the tool was used both for outright violence by the west into a useful narrative to feed its own citizens.
The best and most comprehensive resource I have seen so far is Qiao Collective’s Xinjiang: A Resource and Report Compilation. Qiao Collective is explicitly pro-PRC, but this is an extremely comprehensive write-up of the entire background of the events, the timeline of reports, and real and fake claims.
I also recommend reading the UN report and China’s response to it. These are the most relevant accusations and responses without delving into straight up fantasy like Adrian Zenz, professional propagandist for the Victims of Communism Foundation, does.
Tourists do go to Xinjiang all the time as well. You can watch videos like this one on YouTube, though it obviously isn’t going to be a comprehensive view of a complex situation like this.
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HRW is a pro-western think tank that frequently cites CIA cutouts like Radio Free Asia. Looking at this document, for example, you can see that it frames public ownership of news media as inherently bad and capitalist news as inherently good. It also frames China as anti-democratic, when it is widely seen by its own citizens to be very democratic:
Overall, you’re just grabbing an anti-communist tool of western governments as a cudgel to bash China. Are there real problems in China? Yes. Is it a “horrible country?” No, far from it, and it’s far better than western imperialist countries that export genocide and plunder the global south.
The form of democracy and the mode of production in China ensures that there is a connection between the people and the state. Policies like the mass line are in place to ensure this direct connection remains. This is why over 90% of the Chinese population supports the government, and why they have such strong perceptions around democracy.
The Chinese political system is based on whole-process people’s democracy, a form of consultative democracy. The local government is directly elected, and then these governments elect people to higher rungs, meaning any candidate at the top level must have worked their way up from the bottom and directly proved themselves. Moreover, the economy in the PRC is socialist, with public ownership as the principle aspect of the economy. Combining this consultative, ground-up democracy with top-down economic planning is the key to China’s success.
I highly recommend Roland Boer’s Socialism in Power: On the History and Theory of Socialist Governance. Socialist democracy has been imperfect, but has gone through a number of changes and adaptations over the years as we’ve learned more from testing theory to practice. Boer goes over the history behind socialist democracy in this textbook.
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It’s always amazing to me how these people who have done zero investigation have the sophomoric nerve to speak as if they’re educating other people in the middle of having information poured over their heads with a bucket
China isn’t socialism, it’s communism.
You understand neither socialism nor communism. Read a book.
China is socialist, not yet communist. It’s run by a communist party, but there is still class struggle. In China, public ownership is the principal aspect of the economy, but there are still other forms of ownership. Communism will exist once all production and distribution has been collectivized.
Secondly, propaganda doesn’t work that way. Read the sources, people believe China is democratic because it is. It has elections, and consultative democracy where the will of the people directs policy. The people rule the system in China. You’re confusing liberal democracy for democracy in general, but what’s interesting about liberal democracy is that really it’s just democracy for capitalists. Having a single main party but broad consensus-building and polling to direct policy is more democratic than picking between a handful of capitalist dominated parties. Plus, China has 8 parties in addition to the CPC that form the government. Finally, there’s nobody with absolute authority in China, so I don’t know what you mean by this.
Overall, I think you’re very confused about socialism and communism, and China in general. Where did you get these ideas from?
You think Xi has absolute power? Not even Mao had absolute power.
They seem like the kind of person who thinks the cultural revolution was completely lead by Chairman Mao and not mostly the chaos of warring factions when all power was given to the people with no oversight or discipline.
If Israel treated Muslims in Gaza the same way as China does in Xinjiang (providing education and citizenship), Netanjahu would be hailed to no end
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“Don’t get me wrong, I’m pro China, but [openly anti China misinformation]”
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You shouldn’t use slurs.
Also it’s not even handed when you say “China is good but…” and then a bunch of lies. Their are things wrong in China but you managed to mention none of them.
Two things can be true at the same time
Beep boop 🤖
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*Run
I like China
Both states are awful.
Wow, that was hard.
God I would hate to have my life expectancy doubled, truly evil shit
Dumb and wrong
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There is no genocide of Uyghurs. Uyghur genocide atrocity propaganda akin to claiming that there’s “white genocide” in South Africa, Christian genocide in Nigeria, or that Hamas sexually assaulted babies in Operation Al-Aqsa Flood.
In the case of Xinjiang, the area is crucial in the Belt and Road Initiative, so the west backed sepratist groups in order to destabilize the region. China responded with vocational programs and de-radicalization efforts, which the west then twisted into claims of “genocide.” Nevermind that the west responds to seperatism with mass violence, and thus re-education programs focused on rehabilitation are far more humane, the tool was used both for outright violence by the west into a useful narrative to feed its own citizens.
The best and most comprehensive resource I have seen so far is Qiao Collective’s Xinjiang: A Resource and Report Compilation. Qiao Collective is explicitly pro-PRC, but this is an extremely comprehensive write-up of the entire background of the events, the timeline of reports, and real and fake claims.
I also recommend reading the UN report and China’s response to it. These are the most relevant accusations and responses without delving into straight up fantasy like Adrian Zenz, professional propagandist for the Victims of Communism Foundation, does.
Tourists do go to Xinjiang all the time as well. You can watch videos like this one on YouTube, though it obviously isn’t going to be a comprehensive view of a complex situation like this.
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Get a job
I’ve already read that article, the sources I linked debunk what’s fake and help contextualize what’s real. You should really do some due dilligence instead of coasting by on Wikipedia, many of the sources in that article link back to made-up claims by Adrian Zenz.
Fun fact, that Wikipedia page used to be titled “Uyghur Genocide” but they had to change it after it became obvious that no genocide was occurring.
Anyway, do you acknowledge the white genocide being orchestrated by a shadowy international jewish communist cabal, or are you a genocide denier? Because if a bunch of nazis say it, it must be true.
Also, name a single non “authoritarian” government. You can’t.
I 100% acknowledge all genocides by imperialist authoritarian shitholes unlike you tankies. Every authoritarian government deserves to fail. I notice how your mod removes links to Wikipedia yet you clamor for sources. You do not care for the truth, you are just propagandists for your preferred imperial authoritarian governments if you’re even an organic person and not just some official in the propaganda arm. Enjoy your little bubble, you will never win supporters this way.
Lol. Imagine declaring “Yes, I do believe the Jews are committing white genocide!” And thinking you’re making a compelling argument
Do you acknowledge the totally real white genocide definitely being orchestrated by a shadowy international jewish communist cabal, or are you a genocide denier?
Why can’t you answer this simple question instead of freaking out? Are you secretly some kind of tankie?
Do you condemn Hamas for beheading 40 babies?
And off he goes to post on c/meanwhileongrad 😂
Edit to add: 1) Wikipedia isn’t a source, dumbass. 2) We’re not the ones in a bubble. Previously:
It’s virtually impossible to be in an “echo chamber” when living in a Five Eyes country. Or rather, it’s virtually impossible to not be stuck in the Five Eyes liberal echo chamber. You would have to go full Kaczynski, living in a shack in the woods.
As if we weren’t—and aren’t still—exposed to exactly the same life-long indoctrination, education, and propaganda as everyone else in the imperial core. But somehow we, who looked beyond the cultural hegemony in which we’re surrounded, are the ones living in a bubble.
“Genocide denial” isn’t a magic spell. Do you not deny the genocide of white South Africans?
Also, do you think we haven’t gone over the Wikipedia entry with a fine-toothed comb already?
The US tried to foment division in China by funding and organizing Salafi terrorist into Xinjiang, and once its efforts failed, it made lemonade out of its lemon by concocting and promoting a genocide narrative.
The only countries pushing this narrative are the “always the same map” imperial core countries, which just so happen to be largely the same ones supporting Israel’s genocide.
Almost no predominantly-Muslim country buys the Uyghur genocide narrative, because they know it’s bullshit, because they talked to the Uyghurs themselves.
https://twitter.com/un_hrc/status/1578003299827171330 #HRC51 | Draft resolution A/HRC/51/L.6 on holding a debate on the situation of human rights in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of #China, was REJECTED.
- The Uyghur Human Rights Project is a product of the National Endowment for Democracy, which is the American government’s main regime change NGO.
- A Reddit AMA Claiming To Be A Uyghur Quickly Exposes A CIA Asset Slandering China
- The Xinjiang Genocide Allegations Are Unjustified
- Uyghur genocide allegations
- American Debunks All Major Western Propaganda on Uyghurs and Xinjiang
- US-Funded Uyghur Activists Train as Soldiers of Empire
- The blueprint of regime change operations How regime change happens in the 21st century with your consent
Genocide is more than just killing, it’s the deliberate destruction of a people including its culture and institutions.
(a) Show me the Uyghur bodies
(b) Show me the serious bodily or mental harm
(c) Show me the conditions calculated to bring about physical destruction in whole or in part
(d) Show me the measures intended to prevent births within the group
In accordance with China’s affirmative action policies towards ethnic minorities, all non-Han ethnic groups were subject to different laws and were usually allowed to have two children in urban areas, and three or four in rural areas.
(e) Show me the forcible transfer of children from one group to another group
violent incidents in East Turkestan
I wonder where those Salafi terrorists came from? Oh right: the US, UK, and Israel organized, funded, and trained them, as they did Al Qaeda and the various flavors of ISIS/ISIL, including the “moderate rebels” that just took over Syria. The blueprint of regime change operations How regime change happens in the 21st century with your consent.
Your poor argumentation shows the cracks in what you claim. You start off with a classic poisoning of the well by your false equivalence of the far right so-called white genocide with PRC’s active suppression and genocide of Uyghur. “vocational programs,” “de-radicalization,” and “rehabilitation” all you use to desensitize us to what is really happening to the people. Just the same as torture apologists using “enhanced interrogation”. Leaked Chinese government documents (the “China Cables,” “Xinjiang Papers”) show are coercive mass detention facilities. Claiming PRC is the best source but yielding its bias is like citing Pravda to debunk Soviet gulags and noting "yes it’s state-aligned, but very thorough."Ridiculous. Your sources do not invalidate multiple independent researchers, satellite imagery, survivor testimony, and leaked internal CCP documents show what is happening to this vulnerable minority group. What’s your response to:
- The UN’s own 2022 report concluded China’s actions may constitute international crimes
- Documented forced sterilization, birth rate collapse among Uyghurs
- The leaked “shoot to kill” orders in the Xinjiang Papers Well, apart from your mod removing dissident for arbitrary reasoning? You can’t claim you want real discourse while doing that. At least own up to your imperial fascist narrative and that you don’t care about truth. You like imperialism when it’s “your guys”.
Your poor argumentation shows the cracks in what you claim. You start off with a classic poisoning of the well by your false equivalence of the far right so-called white genocide with PRC’s active suppression and genocide of Uyghur.
It isn’t a false equivalence, though. Just like ideas of “white genocide,” western countries often accuse their geopolitical opponents of atrocities, heavily distorting reality in order to make it impossible for the western working class to take an active stance against western imperialism.
"vocational programs,” “de-radicalization,” and “rehabilitation” all you use to desensitize us to what is really happening to the people.
This is what was factually happening, though. Prior to the establishment of de-radicalization programs, western-backed terrorist attacks were common, in order to disrupt the Belt and Road initiative (where Xinjiang is key to expanding westward). These included:
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July 5, 2009: The Urumqi Riots resulted in 197 deaths, and 1700 wounded in mass stabbings.
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October 28, 2013: Tian’anmen Attack, 5 killed, 40 wouded, when a Jeep was driven directly into crowds.
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March 1, 2014: Kunming Train Station Attack, 31 killed, 141 wounded. 8 jihadists committed mass stabbings.
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May 22, 2014: Urumqi Attack, 39 killed, 94 injured as 2 attackers drove cars into crowds and threw explosives at buildings.
And many more. Since the de-radicalization efforts, these attacks have gone down to effectively 0.
Just the same as torture apologists using “enhanced interrogation”. Leaked Chinese government documents (the “China Cables,” “Xinjiang Papers”) show are coercive mass detention facilities.
They don’t, actually. You’re referencing Adrian Zenz, professional propagandist for the Victims of Communism Foundation. He believes he was sent by God to punish China, and his work has been thoroughly discredited.
Claiming PRC is the best source but yielding its bias is like citing Pravda to debunk Soviet gulags and noting "yes it’s state-aligned, but very thorough.
I never said the PRC was the best source. Qiao Collective is pro-PRC, they aren’t affiliated with the PRC itself. They are made up of Chinese diaspora in the west. Further, though, I don’t know why anyone would try to debunk the idea that the Soviet Union had prisons. That all being said, China does release white papers like Vocational Training and Education in Xinjiang that document in detail how the program is run. Not listening to the defendent at all in a court case would have you thrown out as clearly unfit to judge.
Your sources do not invalidate multiple independent researchers, satellite imagery, survivor testimony, and leaked internal CCP documents show what is happening to this vulnerable minority group.
China already released a massive response to these kinds of claims. Many buildings alleged to be camps were just normal buildings. Witness testemony is about all there actually is, and it’s highly conflicting.
The UN’s own 2022 report concluded China’s actions may constitute international crimes
See China’s rebuttal, which eclipsed the UN’s report in size and detail, thoroughly debunking it.
Documented forced sterilization, birth rate collapse among Uyghurs
More Adrian Zenz bullshit. This claim comes from Zenz misrepresenting 8.7% of new IUDs as 80%, from this chart:
Zenz lied about forced sterilization and misrepresented numbers to do so.
The leaked “shoot to kill” orders in the Xinjiang Papers
The Xinjiang Police Files are made by the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, a far-right propaganda tank, and again come solely from Adrian Zenz.
Well, apart from your mod removing dissident for arbitrary reasoning? You can’t claim you want real discourse while doing that. At least own up to your imperial fascist narrative and that you don’t care about truth. You like imperialism when it’s “your guys”.
I’m not the one relying entirely on the fascist ravings of a Christian Nationalist paid by the US State Department and UK Government to invent lies about China. Have fun taking this back to the Nazi bar you just came from, MeanwhileOnGrad.
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You’re getting downvoted because your points have been thoroughly debunked, and we refuse to accept your fantasies as material reality.
I think you should reread my comment and sources, as they already counter that article. Do you think I haven’t read that wikipedia entry already? It’s the first thing people jump to when trying to prove a genocide, despite being full of holes and referencing Adrian Zenz, or sources relying on Adrian Zenz. Have the basic decency to check out the sources I linked.
Lol. Sorry, one is absolutely perfect and must not have any problems spoken about. Let’s do some more you vs us bullshit (not that I am from either).
Lol you’re doing the angry 12 year old thing of throwing up your hands and going “Oh so China must be an absolute perfect heaven on earth, huh?!”
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The issue is that the “criticisms” that people bring up aren’t reality, they’re propaganda. We can talk about real issues just fine, if/when you spend the time first learning how China really is, then we can actually have a productive discussion and treat you seriously. As it is we’re not gonna act as if disproven shit is real.
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Everyone and their dog just seem to be waiting for the chance to write their dissertation on the benevolence of China, and yet rarely do I see the same in defence of western countries.
Have you considered that what looks like “dissertations” might just be people applying materialist analysis, seeking truth from facts against the propaganda wave?
That China, flaws and contradictions included, has still secured historical wins for the proletariat of the periphery (especially in China), while the Western imperial bloc runs and has been running the world’s largest and most advanced exploitation and immiseration machine in human history on throughout the periphery?
So of course dissecting China takes nuance to weigh the real gains against the flaws and discern the truth from the wave of lies?
When you do a material analysis of the West and what’s left to weigh? Just capitalist plunder, imperialist immiseration, and fascism.
Have you considered a lot of your criticism are not accepted or have paragraphs of
denialsanalysis because a lot of your criticism stem from a faulty base understanding and/or analysis (such as overstating the scale/scope of the issue if it exists or hammering on criticisms that aren’t real like the “genocide”)?Just an example of what I’m talking about: The hukou system in the modern day is deeply flawed and there are many criticisms to be made of it such as it leading to wage disparity etc. However if I were to then say that the hukou system never made any sense, was senseless cruelty or some other such nonsense jumped off from it that would necessitate a few paragraphs of explanation and rebuttal to reach the truth of the matter. Which is that the system in the modern day is outdated and harmful but was a necessary policy to avoid massive slums forming and despite it’s harms does have some positive aspects such as the guaranteed land and homesteading rights should one end up homeless.
It’s important that criticism be principled and precise for it to have any meaning. I’d be very interested to hear some of your criticisms that were faced with paragraphs of “denials”.
That’s the commentary you folk give give though. Every post is US bad, any knows issues with cha are lies
Now you’re doing the 12 year old “This thing I’m doing is actually what you’re doing”.
Sounds very familiar here
Because you keep doing it dumbass
Lol bro i am begging you to at least act 13
Do you think, perhaps, that there could be a middle ground between “as awful as the US Empire” and “absolutely perfect and must not have any problems spoken about?” Do you think the position “US Empire is awful, China is good but not perfect” can exist, or is that too nuanced?
Has anyone ever said that on ml! You may the the most flexible commenter here!
Literally every day. You guys, on the other hand, have to pretend not to see it because actually engaging with actual criticism (like you pretend to care about) would be devastating to your stunted worldview.
No, I want to see it. I hate the needless wars and aggression. Dictatorships, genocide, ethnicity restrictions, forced labour, natural desolation for coin/convenience, etc.
No superpowers are immune from committing these crimes.
It is my mistake to comment on the ml propaganda site though.
Yes, US is uniquely bad though, but i don’t need to say that, it’s obvious
No superpowers are immune from committing these crimes.
The sad thing about living in the empire built on these crimes is that they are so all-pervasive, it becomes second nature to see them as universal. Like a child born into an abusive family who sees the abuse as normal. Their parents tell them, in between beatings, that anyone who claims not to live this way is lying. The child slips into state of depression, believing that humanity itself is simply like this everywhere. They see no point in striving for better, because better doesn’t exist. When more and more people tell the child that this is wrong, that other people in fact do not live like this, the child may lash out in anger and denial, too afraid to entertain hopeful notions. “There is no alternative” becomes the accepted wisdom. Fear and spite close the curtain on curiosity. The cycle continues.
Cynical lip service that isn’t reflected in your actual politics
Sweeping declarative statements divorced from any analysis beyond idle chin tapping
Crying victim when your hostile shit behavior isn’t fawned over
I don’t think anyone has maintained the position that China is perfect on Lemmy.ml. Defending China from overstated or false allrgations does not mean there are no problems, and the existence of problems does not mean most are not being actively worked on.
Maybe confronting the conversations is a better thing than denying and finger pointing then? Depends who you want in the conversation though, assuming such a thing is allowed.
denying and finger pointing
Literally what the libs are doing constantly in any conversation about countries they’ve been brainwashed to hate. You’re afraid of a real conversation, so you just mentally shut down, repost the same old debunked propaganda for the 500th time, and shout thought-terminating epithet at anyone who dissents. The liberal caricature of communist society is in fact how they themselves enforce ideological compliance.
I see more confrontation of the conversation than not. Denying can be useful for instances where it’s straight up made-up.
Nobody said that and you know it, you’re full of shit
Being wrong takes no effort.
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Is the lower photo real or AI? It looks like an album cover.
I’m tired of being surrounded by propaganda. Do better.
Tell that to your pedophile rulers
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Leftists have regularly been advocating for organizing:
The problem with liberals is that they still think the democrats are a path to progress, rather than slow death.
Cowbee I like the chart, but respectfully a lot of the rhetoric on ML instances reads closer to trolling than engaging to build a “sympathetic base” , just my 2 cents not worth much more than that ;-)
Every time I see Cowbee in a thread like this, it’s like I walked into a restaurant to see someone trying to explain to somebody else why their friend who just spat in their food is actually a cool dude doing great solidarity because the owners of the restaurant treat their employees poorly.
ML in my experience has very little to do with engaging with leftists and more to do with bashing the “decadent West.” Anytime I see memes.ml pop up in my feed, it’s a 50/50 shot between me finding something funny or something that makes me debate blocking the instance as much as I can at an account level.
I think what you’re describing is the difference between leftists shitposting online and actual real-life practice.
The decadent west
Lol you have not seen a single person say this, you’re just reaching into a grab bag of dialogue tropes you’ve heard in old movies or maybe a Red Alert game. Fucking nobody says “the decadent west” outside of Bond movies from 50 years ago. Quit lying.
I didn’t mean that as a literal quote but as sarcastic air quotes to evoke the exact imagery that you came up with. Although, I have actually seen a Hexbear or (what’s the other one, Beehaw?) user use that phrase. Of course, they also said that only capitalist pigs die in China, so it’s hard to tell if they were serious or if it was full commitment to the bit. That part of Lemmy is fairly indistinguishable from a leftist version of 4chan.
Like I said in another comment, ML has an issue common to many leftist communities in that old saying of “nobody hates leftists more than other leftists.” And that can manifest as behaving like more moderate leftists (not liberals - actual leftists) may as well be centrists or conservatives, or treating Europe as being just as bad as Trump’s regime. Purity tests and trolling rather than the mutual cooperation that Cowbee posted.
ML in my experience has very little to do with engaging with leftists and more to do with bashing the “decadent West.” Anytime I see memes.ml pop up in my feed, it’s a 50/50 shot between me finding something funny or something that makes me debate blocking the instance as much as I can at an account level.
Meme communities will be like that, right?
Why not block this community and engage with other communities in the instance?
I guess? I don’t think I’ve ever really stayed in a memes community where that’s the case, though on Reddit I was largely in places like egg_irl and traaa, where everything was focused around a shared experience of a minority group.
Besides, it’s not just the memes community, the memes is just where it appears the most blatantly and loudly. As the person above me said, it’s an instance wide thing. ML is nowhere near as bad as Hexbear (or I have yet to see any targeted harassment campaigns against an instance for failing a purity vibe check come from ML, at least) but, as they say, “nobody hates leftists more than other leftists.” Leftist spaces tend to have a bit of an undercurrent of only being welcoming to the “right kind of leftist.” I used “decadent West” up there very purposefully. There’s a bit of a vibe to ML that’s less “uniting various leftist groups” and more “preaching The Good Word to those poor ignorants” proselytizing.
Lemmy.ml isn’t an org, I’m not trying to suggest that it is. Leftists make memes and shitposts here, but when it comes to actual action, organizing in real life is always recommended.
Yes. Agree. And I would suggest it is counterproductive to the point of being counter-revolutionary.
A simulacrum mocking the landscape it seeks to map
I don’t agree with the idea that shitposting is counter-revolutionary. Seems a bit much.
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Your entire argument is based on the idea that shitposting online is the primary means by which leftists organize. I organize with a communist party in real life, online memes and shitposting are by no means what people advocate as “practice,” it’s just a thing to do in free time. Take a step back and rethink what you believe is going on.
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What on Earth are you talking about? All real communist orgs use online agitation, newsletters, social media, and more. I’m not saying that shitposting is valuable, I’m saying it’s not what I mean by practice. You’re deeply confused.
we do
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lmao the fuck you do
Once I stop reading “two things can be true at once” whenever your nazi pedophile rulers tell you something bad about the next country they want to destroy maybe I’ll believe you
Then you might want to get off the internet and live in the woods
Tempting
Everything you consume is propaganda and has an agenda, you just see this as propaganda because it counters the propaganda that’s already internalized and invisible to you
This may counter propaganda, but is also clearly propaganda itself.
Literally anything that causes an idea to spread is propaganda. Advertising, calls for help, gossip, commentary, analysis, storytelling, hell public art or theater or even just public conflict. That’s what the word means, the means of idea propagation.
Absolutely, that’s my point.
So calling anything propaganda is pointless, because everything is propaganda.
Exactly. And saying this meme is counter-propaganda is pointless, since it itself is propaganda.
Ok, sure. It’s exactly as propaganda as anything else
Again, there is no cultural artifact that does not serve a propaganda purpose or espouse a worldview
Indeed - Riverside’s claim that this is not propaganda is therefore false.
It’s not propaganda as we’ve been made to understand it in the west, because that’s a meaningless vibes based category
Hmm, maybe I misunderstood you.
If all cultural artifacts serve a propaganda purpose, but this post is not propaganda, does that mean that this post is not a cultural artifact?
I’m saying we’ve been taught that “propaganda” is just another word for “lies” when the reality is that it covers basically any piece of art, culture or commentary. It’s just any art or information that advances a specific view of the world. As a category it’s hopelessly broad, so it’s better to understand it as a function rather than a thing.
Propaganda is just messaging, there’s nothing inherently evil about it. The question is what message is being propagated.
Absolutely - I did not mean to imply that this is evil propaganda.
China executes pedophiles and America elects them and worships at their churches. It’s really not a complicated comparison. There is no gotcha here
Maybe both countries should stop executing people given that a non-negligible number of them are entirely innocent. Maybe capital punishment should have been abandoned long before the 21st Century and any country that continues it be a pariah state.
Fair, though I’m not sure it’s as simple as that. I’m no fan of the US, but what do you think is the biggest issue plaguing China right now from a humanist perspective?
- Poverty (which they’re alleviating), and the trappings of poverty (like poor labor conditions, corruption, and abuse).
- Environmental degradation (which they are alleviating) and all the trappings that come with it (like greater impact on the poor, bad health outcomes, corruption).
- Threats from state actors (which they are alleviating) and the trappings that come it (like selective repression of dissent, organizing, and collaboration, surveillance and chilling effects, etc)
Shitposting isn’t propaganda
They’re both bad…
Behold the peak of liberal geopolitical analysis
Yay politics in my memes again.
Lemmy.ml’s meme community allows political memes.
a bunch of politics in your cost of living too.
Politics are in everything. The jobs available to you, personally, the education, quality of air, water, soil, wages, religion, atheism, brands to “choose” from, free speech zones, cars, public transit, where you live, how long you live… I can’t think of anything free from politics, even thoughts.
I pay $20 a month to CPUSA now am I a good boy yet 🐶
They can both be bad
They can be, but they aren’t in reality.
Spineless
