We are just finding out about a child sex trafficking ring involving politicians and billionaires, the world’s richest man does a Nazi salute at a political rally, and the President being an adjudicated sex criminal is probably not the worst thing he has done…
Meanwhile I’m standing here in the checkout line feeling guilty about whether or not I should tip a barista
Something is wrong with our collective notion of morality, and my individual understanding (Oh well, here we are)
On a related note, the latest Trump administration cabinent picks and antics unironically cured my impostor syndrome.
If these gaggle of fucking demented backstabbing morons are good enough to run this country…
And they can show that about half the country is actually so stupid and or intentionally blind and or evil to somehow not realize their cult leader just obviously is a huge rapist and pedoohile…
Then I am better than this country.
Better qualified, more empathetic, more competent.
Turns out it was just angry clowns gaslighting us the whole time.
Well uh fuck em, this is all so stupid that I now actually have the correct amount of self-confidence and self-respect, it is indeed this entire society that is a joke, not that I am somehow fundamentally inadequate.
“Only those who do not seek power are qualified to hold it.” Plato knew what was up.
it’s easier to get ahead with a weaker skillset if you’re ok with fucking over someone else to get there.
angry clowns
We are stuck in a surreal angry clowns horror movie.
I mean, you should tip the barista, though.
We need to advocate for better pay, and stop taking tipped jobs.
We need to advocate for better pay
Yes.
and stop taking tipped jobs.
If people could just “stop taking tipped jobs” you really think they wouldn’t have been doing that already?
Your post kinda has “have you tried just not being depressed?” energy.
I stopped taking tipped jobs. I’m homeless and unemployed, and suffer from depression and ADHD.
They aren’t necessarily linked, but doing one’s best to stop participating in certain parts of a capitalist society is actually a choice. It’s not like depression.
No, it is not our job to pay their salaries
I mean, that depends. How much love did she put in the coffee?
Please don’t put any love related fluids in my coffee
Well then you shouldn’t be ordering Cupids Coffee
But who are you tipping, really.
In the US, there is such thing as “tipped minimum wage”. So, federal minimum wage is $7.25/hour, but the employer may pay as little as $2.13/hour themselves if the worker makes up the rest with tips.
Most extreme in Delaware. Minimum wage is $15/hour, but minimum tipped wage is just $2.23, so up to $12.77/hour in tips can just be a discount to the employer.
Why do you think tips are being pushed so much in the US? Chart per jurisdiction: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tippedThis sounds like something a non-tipper would say
And lots of employers will refuse to pay more than the tipped rate on slow days stealing wages from the workers if they think they can get away with it.
Jesus christ. No they dont. There’s more than enough dolts like you being employed in an unskilled trade industry for shit wages that has minimal overhead as it is so stealing your wage via tips would mean the restaurant is not going to be in business for long. Its not your employer’s job to babysit your paycheck. If you arent reporting discrepancies, thats on you. Noone is guna keep working at a place that isnt paying employees what their owed. Especially not in an industry where the wage floor is so low and the employment is so heavily driven by word of mouth.
Why the hostility and insults to
unskilledessential workers? Those jobs are often worked at by young workers who don’t necessarily know their rights. I agree it’s bad business practice to do it but it absolutely happens.Its not your employer’s job to babysit your paycheck.
LOL Yes, it literally is.
dolts like you … If you arent reporting discrepancies, thats on you
Nice insult, very constructive. What would the capitalist business owners do without people like you putting down workers and defending their shitty business practices? Also ah yes it is the workers fault for that they are getting wages stolen from them not the owner’s or manager’s.
Got a love all the victim blaming going on in this thread right mate? I seriously don’t get these people who bend over backwards to lick capitalist boots.
Also stealing wages via tips is different than not paying the difference between tipped min wage and regular minimum wage when there isn’t much business. Maybe there was some confusion on your part about what I was referring to there.
Both are forms of wage theft and both do happen, but I wasn’t referring to stealing tips in my OC. Perhaps I could’ve worded my comment better to make that clearer.
You wish they did because then you’d have a easy lawsuit with plenty of lawyers willing to take that case. “lots of employers will refuse to pay” is a straight lie, employers are happy to pay the wage if you dont get any tips. Its still min wage and min wage is fuck all.
Bud you think fraud doesn’t happen? How naive are you? Businesses will happily commit fraud if they think they can get away with it. And they do, routinely.
Do you seriously think that I believe that fraud doesnt happen? What would give businesses the impression that they can commit fraud? Oh it would be people not suing the fuck out of them.
If its a slow day and your employer doesnt pay you the legal min wage then you sue them. Its that simple. You dont turn around and act like getting no tips that day was the reason you made $2.
Is it really as simple as using your not money that you weren’t paid to hire a lawyer, take off of work for even less money to sue your employer?
Where my “that was easy” button, I’m dying to press it.
For a wage theft case you would not need to pay a lawyer. There are plenty of lawyers that seek out these cases and pay themselves off the settlement. You would need to do is book a meeting and explain the case and show up in court once if you boss was stupid enough to fight it. Thats not a wildly impossible set of steps to take.
You don’t get paid daily, dipshit. What gives them the impression they can get away with it is because they rely on a convoluted system to obscure their fraud against vulnerable, such as the youth who do not fully understand their rights as workers, and the desperate who are taking bottom of the barrel jobs to make ends meet and don’t want to risk putting their lifeline in jeopardy to stand up for their rights. A legal battle takes time, but rent is due and the fridge is empty right now.
Jesus Christ, you are naive. Holy fuck you’re not even worth talking to. Fuck off with your myopic victim blaming rhetoric.
if they think they can get away with it.
You missed this apparently.
If they think they can get away with it doesnt matter. Obviously the only people commiting wage theft are the ones who think they can get away with it. Its up to the employee to ensure they do not get away with it.
Placing the blame on the victim to not be taken advantage of instead of blaming the one who is taking advantage of others is myopic as fuck.
No where did I blame victims. The original post made the claim that a lot of employers will refuse to pay. I said no a lot of employers wont do that because they would get sued out the ass. He said “if they think they can get away with it” which is a redundant statement, no employer who doesnt think they will get away with wage theft is going to still commit it. So then the original argument is still a lot of employers do not commit wage theft because they would get sued if they did. Employees should continue to take legal actions against employers who do not pay.
To think that employees standing up for their legal rights is victim blaming or licking capitalist boots is braindead.
Are you thinking not tipping would magically transform a “tipped” position (that was subject to the minimum tipped wage) into a non-tipped position (that was subject to the normal minimum wage)? What’s the threshold? A particular percentage of transactions refraining from tipping? Under a specific dollar amount of tips per worker? The employer having to supplement the tips to get it up to the minimum tipped wage more than a certain percentage of the time? Are you sure “yeah, but there’s a blank on the receipt labeled ‘tip’, so theoretically the workers could get tips” isn’t enough to make the minimum tipped wage apply? Does it vary by jurisdiction?
Meanwhile, the real person behind the real counter of the real coffee shop you like probably regularly skips meals to afford rent.
Even if what you’re suggesting could work, who’s to say they wouldn’t immediately replace it with some “gig economy” sort of alternative that would turn the workers into freelancers to whom no minimum wage applied?
Yes, advocate for worker rights, but don’t kid yourself that not tipping your servers is somehow doing them a favor.
It would actually magically transform it from a tipped position to a non tipped position. If you dont tip the server they still receive a legal min wage. If you tip the server all you’re doing is paying the employers share of that employees wage.
You assume the business isn’t committing fraud by not reporting accurate tips and/or aren’t taking advantage of the naive and vulnerable by convincing them it is in their best interest to not report accurately.
Wage theft is the largest and most common category of theft in the US, after all.
The only real solution is a general strike of all wage staff that prevents these businesses from operating until things change. But that would require massive unionization efforts before it would even be remotely possible.
No. I am assuming that the business is committing fraud by misleading their employee into thinking their pay will remain $2 + tips even when their tips are below the min wage or the business is just paying $2 + tips instead of the legal min wage. The only thing being discussed here is the Fair Labor Standards Act. Everything else is random shit you’re making up to muddy the water.
A general strike would be the best outcome for the business. All they have to do is say "ok things have changed we will pay you what you’re lawfully owed.
Legal action the business could be fined 10k or more and the employee gets all lost wages + costs.
Yeah and also when the president rapes kids, he’s goes to prison.
I’m sorry how is this relevant?
No they don’t, at least in every single tipped position I’ve ever worked, which would be at least 20 different places.
In reality what you’re doing is just fucking over the person working that position. I agree that the rules suck, but you’re not changing them by not tipping. Get involved in a way that will actually make a difference, and if you can’t afford to tip, just consider yourself unable to afford that particular service.
Yes they do receive a min wage its just lower than what they receive through tips and thats why they dont want to get rid of it. Look at any other country for what happens when you dont tip. I will never tip out of principle.
I’m telling you from direct experience, that is not the case. It may happen in some, but in my experience, none.
You are helping no one but yourself at the expense of your server when you do that. That part is not something you can argue your way out of.
So you’re telling me that the waitress earning $2 hr + $3 per hour in tips will be getting paid $5 an hour and not $7.25? If thats the case, then thats wage theft and its illegal and she should find a lawyer who will sue that employer.
Tip service workers, steal from Kroger.
You may be noticing now. But people have been doing terrible things without consequences forever.
I’ve learned paedophiles seem to be naturally skilled with grabbing power throughout history and the present is no differnt. I’m more aware of that fact now.
I’ve also learmed a large percentage of humans actually are fine with their leaders raping children. One might think they’re fine with it in general.
They have no morals, which is why they can grab power so easily. They’re not playing by the rules. Thus to win consistently, you’d need to cheat as well.
Then you’re left with two options. Cheat to win too, or rolling heads.
Don’t expect the world to reward your good behavior. You will find your own internal motivation, or maybe not. But judging others never ends well. Just focus on your own actions. Nobody says being a good human being is easy…
He also puts into perspective how easily manipulated we all are.
We still give the most amount of power to the least trustworthy people. It’s disgusting.
My morality works fine. A bunch of lead drinking, lead breathing, racist rednecks need to get fixed.
…preferable with rusty pliers
Honestly, I think my moral OCD needed to hear this.
Are you really feeling guilty about not tipping because of the moral implications, or do you just feel socially shamed? Important distinction.
For me it’s the empathy of knowing that that person won’t have enough money because I know they don’t get a living wage.
One of the best distinctions!
Not OP, but both.
Considering the idea of shame is society’s way to enforce it’s version of morality, I would argue no it is not a distinction.
Considering that drinking coffee is my prefered kind of laxative, i would argue theres actually no distinction between coffee and shit.
Huh. I know this has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation, but I just realized I started experiencing constipation after I stopped drinking coffee. I think I should start doing that again. Thanks homie!
Or just hydrate more—its better for you and your shit.
Oh, ya boi hydrates! I drink so much water that I don’t flush after using a stall just to flex on the next motherfucker.
I had a feeling my comment had a noble purpose :)
Fuck yeah!
I don’t … think that was a part of the conversation going right now, but I am enjoying the turn it is taking!
Like you said, society’s version of morality. So it can be a very important distinction because your own version of morality might differ. Not being aware of this distinction is dangerous because it stops people from developing their own moral compass. This own morality is more firm and can be relied on in the absence of shame, or even when society encourages behavior one finds immoral.
I’m even gonna go on a wilder speculation here and claim that one of the driving factors behind humanity’s worst atrocities was that large portions of society who had the potential in them for a firm morality rooted in empathy and love never developed this potential.
On a less import note, not being aware of this distinction can breed a lot of resentment and unhappiness, if someone is constantly compelled to follow rules that they, deep down, consider to be bullshit.
Of course that doesn’t mean I encourage people to just disregard society’s version of morality and lightly assume that they know better.
Edit: just noticed your username, I hope that furriosa is doing well <3
*Furryosa is doing well and thank you for acknowledging me.
But fuck you anyways!
I feel guilty because I’m conflicted about what the right thing to do is, the cost, and care about fellow workers.
You probably understand why I would have a moral question (alongside some guilt of doing the wrong thing) after reading through the entire thread engaging your comment.
Meanwhile Epstein, Elon, and Trump don’t seem to have these hang-up’s and are rewarded handsomely by society…
Don’t forget, while the Qanon BS is flourishing, a former Speaker of the House (3rd in line to the presidecy) gets imprisoned for molesting at least four teenage boys.
And make sure to turn off all the lights and appliances you’re not using to save power for the AI. This future is trash.
And reduce your water usage because it’s a drought. While we grow water heavy crops like almonds in those drought stricken regions and foreign investors from arid countries grow water heavy crops like alfalfa solely for export back home.
Just finding out? Haha, no, we’ve known about this ring for the better part of a decade now. The wealthy and powerful probably a lot longer than that.
Even the next part:
world’s richest man does a Nazi salute at a political rally,
Don’t get me wrong, horrible and completely unacceptable.
But sure as shit is nowhere near the line of what’s happened with the last 100 years:
The Business Plot, also called the Wall Street Putsch[1] and the White House Putsch, was a political conspiracy in 1933 in the United States to overthrow the government of President Franklin D. Roosevelt and install Smedley Butler as dictator.[2][3] Butler, a retired Marine Corps major general, testified under oath that wealthy businessmen were plotting to create a fascist veterans’ organization with him as its leader and use it in a coup d’état to overthrow Roosevelt. In 1934, Butler testified under oath before the United States House of Representatives Special Committee on Un-American Activities (the “McCormack–Dickstein Committee”) on these revelations.[4] Although no one was prosecuted, the congressional committee final report said, “there is no question that these attempts were discussed, were planned, and might have been placed in execution when and if the financial backers deemed it expedient.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
In case anyone’s eyes glazed over instead of reading, two key points:
wealthy businessmen were plotting to create a fascist veterans’ organization with him as its leader and use it in a coup d’état to overthrow Roosevelt.
And even more importantly:
Although no one was prosecuted, the congressional committee final report said, “there is no question that these attempts were discussed, were planned, and might have been placed in execution when and if the financial backers deemed it expedient.”
Shit didn’t just get bad, it’s been bad.
And the way to fight it is an opposition party like FDR.
Oh yeah Musks grandparents were part of that
Everyone acting like these are the worst times ever, makes me wonder about their history education. Yeah, America’s taken a steep dive this century. Yeah, that’s normal for empires to fall. Usually to greed.
I’m hoping we crash hard, Great Depression hard. That clusterfuck ushered in liberal politics dominating until the 90s. We had conservatives, Reagan comes to mind, but they didn’t have unchecked power like today.
Only exception I got is global warming. We’ve never played this particular game before.
False premise. I never said it was the worst time ever, or even that I was surprised.
This is just about the relativity of my morality and what society is willing to tolerate
(this to the above two smart comments as well - although I don’t fundamentally disagree)
Only exception I got is global warming. We’ve never played this particular game before.
We also never had nukes before.
The conditions have been worse in the past, but the risks are so much worse these days.
Only exception I got is global warming. We’ve never played this particular game before
I mean…
Anatomically modern humans have been around, what, 300k years?
Like you could grab someone from back then as an infant, raise them today, and they’d just be a regular dude.
The last ice age ended about 50k years ago, and that’s why we say civilization was finally able to start. But that ignores that humans went thru the same ice age cycle 4-5 times in those 300k years.
If all it took was “no ice age” then logically the chances of the first civilization being 50k years ago is pretty much zero.
Climate change is like the inevitable reset for humanity. We’re making it happen fast this time, but we can’t really be sure that’s unique either. It doesn’t even take us, just a supervolcanoe or asteroid.
Bright side is it makes it more likely humanity as a species makes it thru the next one. I think evidence shows we’ve been down to like 1,000 humans world wide 70k years ago? Maybe as little as 50 adults of reproductive age?
But we’re 8 something billion now.
A fairly wide range of problems in modern society can be traced to the judiciary’s reluctance to both prosecute and sentence the rich with the same rigor they apply to the poor.
The Business Plot never ended, they just regrouped. All those fuckers involved should have been hung.
The way to fight it isn’t a FDR-style party that will just give concessions to staunch the momentum of the working class, which was rallying behind communist ideology through unionization efforts, that was threatening the capitalist status quo at the time. That status quo is the entire root of the problem. The only way to fight it is to dismantle the system that gives them their power and build something new, not to continue enabling the very systems that keep us on our knees.
Given this past decade, I’d say I we’ve known about it for the worst part of the decade.
Actually over 2 decades, now. Epstein’s plea deal was in 2008 under Bush.
When did I get old?
Reminds me of something. Martin Luther’s own writings dating from 1531, in which he stated that Pope Leo X:
Vetoed a measure that cardinals should restrict the number of boys they kept for their pleasure, otherwise it would have been spread throughout the world how openly and shamelessly the Pope and the cardinals in Rome practice sodomy.
Our tech changes but we don’t.
It’s a tough go for the people who believe in pacifism or nonviolent change.
Dual Power means you can have a pacifist stance and still support the radicals in your lane.
Not everyone needs to be a gunslinger for a resistance to succeed. Just do what you can when you have the chance.
I never meant to imply a pacifist would be required to engage in violence, only that they would have to indirectly support it at the very least, lest their own principles be engulfed by those who would see to their extinction.
Chatting with a buddy of mine this morning. He is looking at stuff he did in his life. He went to see the play, Annie, when he was a kid.
“They wouldn’t do Annie today, it’s too woke” I said. Then, it dawned on me. "I’m wrong. Annie would be totally fine.
Short review: 'An orphaned girl is bought by a billionaire real estate magnate and groomed at a luxury resort," would fit right in with the morals of a political party
