Crazy that The Newspaper Of Record got a scope before the Congressional “Gang of Eight” explicitly designated with intelligence oversight.
Gotta wonder how Congress will resp- oh, no. They folded. Nevermind.
decided not to publish to protect US troops
Bullshit, the Semafor report (arc) said they received these leaks before the operation began when it still could’ve been cancelled if someone put a spotlight on what they were about to do. If anything, by withholding this information from the American people and allowing this reckless operation to go forward unimpeded they helped the Trump administration put these troops in harm’s way.
This was not about protecting the lives of US troops or anyone else’s, this was about protecting the power of the United States government to inflict violence wherever it wants to no matter who is in charge of it or how stupid or cruel their motivations are.
It was about the press protecting themselves from any trump backlash.
Yes, the NYT is the same paper it was in 2003.
Not sure why this is news when they’ve done it before and still support it. The NYT has always been pro-imperialism. And they support queerphobes too.
All the more reason why corporate news cannot be trusted and independent media organizations are the future. We can’t rely on compromised, corrupt media who have bent the knee to this administration.
this administration.
Sweet summer child
This Administration, the last Administration or any Administration.
In a real Democracy the Press is an independent Pillar from both the Political Pillar and Judicial Pillar, hence serving as an oversight over the other two.
This explains why in the US Politicians do whatever the fuck they want with little real pushback unless it negative affects some American Money elite or other: the Press in the US isn’t at all independent.
Fuck the NYT.
If it was such a problem then they should have leaked the info to a big news source outside the US to avoid problems, but they didnt even do that.
Or leaked to Venezuela
I’m all for impeding the Trump admin, but I would never help the Venezuelan dictatorship. Glad that fucker Maduro got caught, maybe now we can lock him and Trump up together.
You’d spent rest of your life in prison for treason doing that
People have died for a lot worse causes
Sure but it is a pretty big ask too.
It’s less of an ask than living in a fascist state waiting for either the next round of talking points you’ll be forced to parrot or waiting to be locked away or killed. Easy choice for me tho bc I don’t have kids
I don’t think most would agree with you there
Only because it’s anti-fascist “treason”
I’m sure most governments in the same position would be fairly upset their operation was revealed to the enemy
Venezuela isn’t our enemy. Or wasn’t until Trump unilaterally illegally declared war on them.
The US government seems to disagree
I was referring to January 6 traitors getting away virtually scot free.
Ah, alright. Didn’t catch that
Where is wikileaks when we need them
probably back in Moscow?
Their leader was very pro trump so I’m not sure they’d be helpful
Oh, you didn’t hear? They’re Russian assets now, so you can’t leak to them. You have to leak to a respectable newspaper that can respectably kill the story.
All things considered, maybe they should have sent it to NYP who would publish for the the opposite reason (tabloid publicity).
Or, yknow, any decently large foreign news outlet with no stake in the US.
That has been the case since forever.
Same in EU or UK.Posted this yesterday:
Let’s also give recognition to the regime press doing their part with fake news trying to create the illusion that the government has fled with the purpose to instigate the Venezuelans to do a coup.
Fun fact, Snowden decided to leak to the Gaurdian over NYT because he saw the Times kill a story on Bush’s warrentless wiretaps in 2006 and knew they couldn’t be trusted.
the Guardian that sold out Assange, Corbyn?..
They are just as bad when it matters, they are controlled opposition.I’m not up on UK politics enough to comment on the Corbyn thing, but if you’re talking about the password thing with Assange, I believe the Gaurdian version of events (that he told them it was a temporary password and then he never changed it). Assange is a narcissist who made sure that Wikileaks had no internal governance or structure outside of him. He wanted complete control over Wikileaks, and the cost of that was that the entire organization fell apart when he was trapped in the Ecuadorian embassy. Also, I think the sexual assault charges against him in Sweden were credible. Wikileaks did a lot of good, but Assange is a piece of shit, and I’m not inclined to believe his version of events over the Gaurdian reporters’.
Thanks MI6
You parrot UK/US regime propaganda.
Like Corbyn slandered as an anti-semite, Assange was constantly slandered as a narcissist and rapist.
That cheap and plenty used tactic didn’t work since that manufactured case got exposed.
IDC what you ‘believe’ those are not facts, the women themselves said the police manufactured the rape claims.
You can keep swallowing pseudo-left guardian nonsense,
I hope you’re a paid troll, if not you’re childishly naive or plain dumb.Yeah, so pretty much every thing you said about the sexual assault charges is wrong. One of the women said she wished he’d faced trial, but since he’s been imprisoned in the Ecuadorian embassy for so long, she thinks he’d paid enough of a price and she’s glad he’s free.. The other one has never publicly identified herself, and is still only known as Miss W. I can’t find any account that either woman said the police manufactured the charges, but it sounds like one of the bullshit conspiracy theories that was floating around in the 2010s (they’re CIA plants, they recanted, it was a setup because one of the officers knew the victim, etc.). I mean, Anna Ardin wrote a fucking book, her thoughts on what happened to her aren’t exactly a mystery.
You can admire people’s actions and still see their flaws. I think that Snowden is a hero, but I also recognize that he’s a Ron Paul libertarian who thinks we should abolish Social Security, and I’m willing to say that he’s got some stupid fucking political beliefs. If you need to become a full-blown rape apologist because someone you like was accused of sexual assault, you need to grow the fuck up.
As for the Corbyn thing, as I said, I’m not that up on UK politics, but I do remember that Corbyn was getting smeared as an antisemite for criticizing Israel, and if the Gaurdian took part in that, fuck 'em. I also find the claims that the other user shared about the Gaurdian going TERF even more disturbing. I respect a lot of the reporting the Gaurdian has done, but they’re not part of my regular news diet and I’m not gonna knee-jerk defend their editorial decisions; my original point was more about how much the times sucks than how great the Gaurdian is. But i am pretty familiar with their fallout with Assange over the book, and I find their reporters more credible than Assange.
So you take the known liars and complicit UK regime mouthpiece as credible truth and that woman’s (disputable and weak) claims too.
Even when there was zero evidence and the case got thrown out by the Swedes who actually investigated it you say " I think the sexual assault charges against him in Sweden were credible.".
They should’ve consulted you since you have some supernatural powers to know better, being far away without access to evidence and persons involved.I’ll believe other sources, naming facts and events the B BS C ‘forgets’ to mention bcs they don’t fit their narrative.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2012/07/assa-j28.html**___**
So it doesn’t sound at all credible to me.
If he would be a rapist, found guity WITH EVIDENCE I would not condone it, but he is not the first one to suffer from US/UK personal attacks and fabrications for political gain.
And it works as you and many others believe it.
Conveniently discrediting everyone as ‘rape apologists’ (while ha was not accused of raping her) and bringing that up completely out of context on a comment about the Guardian.Hey buddy, you can stop talking now. You’ve gone from, “the women said the police manufactured the charges,” to, “the women aren’t credible.” It’s pretty clear you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about, and a dead link from, “World Socialist Website,” isn’t changing that.
I’m guessing (hoping, really) that you’re too young to actually remember this case, but I was an adult when the charges came out against Assange, and at the time, I also thought they were bullshit. Then more and more information came out, so I processed it and changed my perspective. That’s what adults do when they’re presented with new information.
You’ve been presented with new information. (You can try to lie about that if you want, but the fact that you went from claiming that the women said the charges were manufactured to calling the women liars makes your ignorance pretty undeniable.) You can process that new information, or you can deny it because you don’t like it. The latter makes you sound like the liberals who smeared Tara Reade to defend Joe Biden, but it’s not an uncommon reaction. There’s even a name for it. It’s called being a fucking rape apologist.
Edit: Also, no, the case wasn’t, “thrown out.” The prosecutors dropped the charges because, after a decade of trying to arrest him, they knew there evidence was too old to get a conviction. That’s not remotely the same thing as a judge throwing out the case, but it’s exactly the kind of lie rape apologists tell themselves when they’re tying to exonerate their favorite predator.
LOL, gets his comments literally from AI, and even then cherrypicking.
I hope you’re too young to realise AI is full of shit.
Nah, you say you’re old so you’re just dumb and gullible.“there evidence was too old to get a conviction”
It’s “their evidence” moron.The case was thrown out because in the Deputy Director of Public Prosecution Eva-Marie Persson own words: “However, my overall assessment is that the evidential situation has been weakened to such an extent that there is no longer any reason to continue the investigation.”
An eloquent way of saving face when she didn’t have a case and was used in a character assassination.
The “it relies heavily on witness testimony” is laughable.
Who would be the witnesses they didn’t speak to, were there people hiding under the bed they didn’t talk to by then?
The only one they couldn’t interview was Assange himself.
Like that would help her Kangaroo court case.OC as I said, they didn’t know about you and your special psychic powers of assessment
You should asses the fact that evidence has a remarkable expiry date in Sweden.
It’s good for 9.5 years, a case from 2010 gets reopened in april 2019.
Somehow by november of that same year it’s suddenly too old!?
If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.You are an embarrassing joke, now fuck off with your imperialist nazi apologist BS, clown.
The Guardian can be too left for me in some cases but I agree that they are more trustworthy. The fact that The Guardian was originally founded with sympathy to those killed by the government for demanding democratic reforms says it all.
I never knew that! Neat.
The Guardian can be too left for me in some cases
:-/
On the Guardian’s Transphobic Centrism
The Guardian faces boycott from LGBTQIA+ journalists
Not remotely left-wing enough for my tastes.
Live coverage also cheerleaded and justified the action, especially the outcome as fully legitimate.
That’s why oligarchs should not own media
If the oligarchs don’t own the media, how will they guarantee public complicity in the generation of private profits?
You need privatized media. Otherwise you get socialism and 100 zillion dead people.
Just reading the headlines made it obvious the MSM was in favor of this.
They are afraid to publish. Not complicit or just partially or whatever. But everyone is afraid, because they know they will be attacked and they know when they’ll be attacked nobody will want or be able to help them.
That’s not exactly complicit.
Fear is complicity.
If you have an opportunity to act and it’s your fucking job to report stories of public interest, and you choose not to - you’re complicit.
Trump attacks both of them regularly already, so what are they afraid of - more name-calling? Media regulations? No. They’re not afraid of journalists being imprisoned, that would be an enormous boon to their reputations. They’re afraid of their owner’s and executives wealth being targeted. Bezos obviously re WaPo, and the NYT is chaired and owned by a sea of corporate interests and billionaires.
The media is supposed to be the fourth estate, but in the US it’s just another corporate-captured tool serving the status quo and the billionaire class.
Unlike most everyone else, it is their job to convey news. If they are too afraid to do that, then they are indeed complicit, because they are journalists, not your average civilian.
Ok so they’re cowards and also complicit.
Yeah sort of. But I think it doesn’t make sense to even point it out anymore, they do exactly as expected every time. Makes no sense to be surprised.
That fear that stops them from helping others is the same fear that condemns them. I’d give them a break 80 years ago, but we know how to defeat fascism this time (solidarity, always).
That only works if they expect someone will have their back.
I’m not saying they aren’t too blame, but they have been molded into whatever the media in USA is today.
I’d say that’s still compliance. They have every legal right to post that, and a history of free press. Caving to the fascist regime is compliance.
If you don’t have a press that dares to report, then what good is it?
They are in it for the long haul. If they break trust now, no one will ever trust them again.
The press has been doing this forever.
So, by not doing their job and caving to a fascist authoritarian regime, they’ve retained trust? They’re part of the fascist authoritarian regime.
You’re part of the regime, too.
You’re still paying taxes and obeying the law.
And even if you go out and start throwing bombs, you’ll be providing them with an excuse to be even worse.
Life isn’t a video game with easy answers.
The American fascist regime? I think not. I’m not American.
You do understand that they take taxes out of your paycheck before they give it to you right?
I was thinking about this scenario
Supposed the press had announced the attack. Trump would have gone ahead anyway, and arrested the ‘traitors.’
Nothing would have changed, except maybe a few more US troops would have died.
Anything wrong with my analysis?
You’re presupposing they would have 1) done it anyway and 2) at the same time it actually happened. They may have reconsidered their attack or delayed it. The delay could have given opportunity for the dynamics to change.
Arresting journalists from a huge news company would come with some blowback. The internal weighing of that potential blowback and how it affects the regime’s relations could have changed things. At the very least, it complicates things for them further - stalling them, making them waste time on listening and responding and managing the media to craft the narrative.
I think the previous poster was talking about “trust” in the sense of the politicians and fatcats trusting those newspapers, rather than in the sense of the public trusting them.
Certainly it’s the only way that post makes any logical sense since a newspaper that choses to selectivelly hide unlawful actions by the Politicians from the public cannot be trusted by the public, but they certainly look much more trustworthy to said politicians and the moneyed elites who own them.
deleted by creator
I’d argue 404 media, Meidas Touch (sp?), a number of others, they do still exist and do good work. PBS made that recent documentary despite enormous pressure to not do so.
But I totally agree with your sentiment that by and large, US journalism is a pathetic gaggle of idiots and evil bastards… its just not quite entirely dead yet.
Coercion I believe is the word used in court.
Almost like the rico case had a point
No, no, that’s exactly what complicit is.
If you have prior knowledge of an intricate and credible conspiracy to commit a crime… and you… don’t do anything with that information, whereas if you had released that information, it may well have made the commission of the crime much more difficult…
Then you are complicit with the conspiracy to commit the crime, even if you’re not directly involved in carrying out the crime.
If you friend knows your partner is cheating on you, and doesn’t tell you… they’re not complicit with the cheating per se, but they are complicit with keeping you in the dark about it.
This really isn’t that complicated.
Oh, excuses? They’re afraid?
Ok, sure, yep, they have reasons to be complicit, doesn’t mean they’re not complicit though.
Just following orders!
Sounds like these people need to start leaking to reputable but not yet compromised outlets like The Bulwark, Crooked Media, Majority Report, Meidas Touch, etc.
Like it’s a legit concern to not put troops in danger, but you can reveal plans without revealing exact times, positions, and actions.
“Sources in DOD reveal plans for joint operation in Venezuela to arrest & expedite Maduro for trial in the US within the next 72 hours.”
No way that puts any troops in danger.
Fuck the troops.
They are following illegal orders . . .
As if only now there’s a problem?
They joined a fascist army that has a history of terrorizing countless countries since forever.
Under both sides of the imperialist uniparty.
Fuck every last one of them.Yes, and your average high school drop out in rural Oklahoma that has no other choices or prospects between joining the army and picking up the meth pipe knows exactly what part they are playing under imperialism… If they can spell that word.
Maybe blanket statements like “fuck every last one of them” serve no purpose in this discussion.
no other choices
that same excuse.
“I had no choice, there was a crisis in the 30’s so I simply had no choice but to join the SS and go kill some people and gas some jews, you have to understand!”Understanding that you’re joining a murderous organization of thugs that gives you a weapon and trains you to kill brown people doesn’t require a degree.
Even some hillbilly from Oklahoma or wherever in the banana republic knows what that means.
Indeed fuck every last one of them.You are vastly overestimating how informed these people are in order to justify your hatred of them.
So they let people in the US terrorist army without knowing what their murder weapon they get is used for?
A 5 year old would know it’s wrong
Any recommendation for YT channels that don’t use clickbait and fluff videos? Even Meidas seems to spam meaningless shit every few hours.
Sounds like these people need to start leaking to reputable but not yet compromised outlets like The Bulwark, Crooked Media, Majority Report, Meidas Touch, etc.
Why would they do that? These leaks came from within the Trump administration with the intention of building support for the invasion. These publications were given prior notice so they could begin building a credible defense of the administration’s actions, not so that they could discourage the administration from proceeding.
