Awesome…
Being secure online and being anonymous online is not the same. Proton only promises one of those.
I’ve been a paid protonmail user for years. What should I use instead?
If you’re worried Proton could identify you to authorities, either just make a new Proton account and pay anonymously (cryptocurrency or cash by mail), since that’s the only way this person was identified, or you could use what I’d consider to be the next-best, which is Tuta.
Nowhere near as slick a UI, less overall offerings (only email and calendar), but it costs less and generally provides similar security and privacy to Proton. Though again, you’d have to pay via private means, otherwise you’re gonna get identified by the same mechanism this person was if the government really decided to come after you by your account.
this person said it once, but I’ll say it again.
the same thing can happen on Tuta unless you pay with an anonymous method. these are privacy focused email providers, they are not anonymous email providers. they keep as little data on you as they need, but if you’re paying with a credit card then obviously you have your real name tied to the account.
If you don’t give information to Proton AG which they can be legally forced to hand over, you’re alright.
Proton was legally ordered by the Swiss justice department to hand over the (severely limited) information about a law breaking organization’s account. They had paid for Proton using a credit card instead of the anonymous payment methods Proton offers, and that is what Proton was forced to hand over. It was the organization’s bad OpSec, not Proton willingly deanonymizing users.
Really, this headline should be “Organization so poorly organized that they messed up having relatively secure email.”
Not at all. Proton doesn’t require any personal info at all. But if you pay with a credit card… That has your personal info tied to it. It’s their fuck up paying with a credit card. Proton accepts other payment methods that aren’t tied to your identity.
Proton is required by law to provide information they have when the courts say so.
So I’m not a criminal organization as far as I know, but if I did pay with a credit card originally can that be rectified without deleting and starting over?
Proton uses Chargebee for payments, which has its own data retention policy of essentially “as long as we want to”, but Proton does themselves keep limited data like the billing name, and last 4 digits.
Proton’s privacy policy says nothing about a pre-set time delay after which they’d delete that data. They only claim that they “reserve our right” to remove your payment information if they think it’s no longer valid. So theoretically, that might mean if your card’s expiry date has passed, but that’s not a confirmation.
The best way to reliably make sure Proton wouldn’t have any info on you is to not have ever tied any real information about yourself or your payment info to that account.
@Charger8232 @jrcruciani The bug is between keyboard and chair. It is always a problem to use crédit card.
I like services like PIA that let you pay in gift cards.
Owned by Kape technologies, and uses Google analytics. Big nope. Any VPN service worth its money support anon payments (including gift cards) anyways.
Gift cards don’t work for me. Guess I need one ordered from outside the US.
Mullvad accepts cash.
And Monero.
Does Proton Mail?
Is there a link you could share?
Yup
Hopefully people like you will be able to nip this in the bud before yet another joke of a controversy starts…
You must be new here…
On the one hand, I really like how often Proton’s shortcomings are highlighted. This SHOULD be a wake up call that you should never rely on a company to protect you and should instead focus on what you can do to ptorect yourself. And Proton… actually are pretty good in that regard. Connect from a burner/live image computer over public wifi using tor (or something similar) and their free accounts are STILL the gold standard for journalism and whistleblowers.
But the problem is that people are stupid and lazy (and many outlets actively benefit from "Eww, proton is bad. If only they had paid for NordVPN to really protect them from the FBI! ~Note, NordVPN provides no guarantees of protection~ ". So we just get stupidity.
OP’s title certainly doesn’t help.
I just switched from proton to mailbox. Mailbox gives you a say so over what happens when law enforcement asks for your account info.
That image only says what to do when you die. Not when law enforcement requests information about your account?
That image doesn’t say anything about law enforcement tho?
Mailbox.org doesn’t have the option for anonymous payments beyond payments in cash, which was the reason for the article in the first place.
It does t matter if you have the ability to simply delete all of your account info.
You do realize that you don’t get time, generally speaking, to delete things, when a government legally demands your info, right?
As soon as any company sees a lawful order demanding information, deleting it becomes a crime.
If this same thing happened to mailbox.org, you heard about it immediately, and hit all the delete buttons you can find, mailbox.org will still hand over your info to them, as they’re legally obligated to do so. It’s not a gdpr violation or anything like that.
You’re not understanding. It’s a preemptive option.
It’s preemptive for when you DIE. That’s why in the screenshot you sent it says “in the event of my death”, not “if the government comes knocking, violate the law and delete my data first”.
You can delete your data from Proton, too, but the payment information, which was how this person was identified, is stored regardless by their third-party payment provider.
Mailbox only erases your payment info 4 weeks after you’ve last paid, and ended your contract with them, and they use Ayden for payments, which also has no set date at which they’ll delete your payment information.
You’re not understanding. They can order whenever.
And the Germans don’t give a fuck.
the germans share intelligence with US agencies. you’re more likely to have your data given to the US government if your email provider is in germany than you are if they are most other places in europe.
they also keep trying to pass laws to force all tech companies to backdoor encryption in germany. when that happens, your data would be safer literally anywhere else, including currently the US.
Their transparency report says otherwise…
It doesn’t matter if they keep it anyways. Always assume anything you put on someone else’s servers is there forever.
