looks like an amazing project to support
https://codeberg.org/NerdNextDoor/vim
https://mastodon.social/@mrmasterkeyboard/116192873098653079
Why do you say it’s an amazing project? Looks to me like someone copied vim, and according to the commits did nothing useful other than changing some text in a few files. The author’s comments are all about coming up with a cool name for it, and what “cool” new features to add. I don’t see any plan on actually making this a viable competing project. I don’t see the author having much credentials in leading a project of this caliber either.
Before anyone misunderstands my comment, yes anyone not liking AI should stop using vim, I very much agree. And there are two viable ways forward:
- Switch to a different editor
- Talk to the maintainers of vim to remove AI
This project is not one of them.
Where is the author’s plan to tackle the 1600 issues that vim has open? How do they address the fact that vim has hundreds of commits each month, and literally had 68 contributors in just the last month? In the past month they closed 66 issues with vim. Half of vim’s codebase is written in vimscript, and the other half in C. The new lead maintainer, I quote: “thankfully i know some C, but not vimscript”. They know some C and no vimscript? So how do they plan to develop this project?!
Another quote: “removing old targets, stripping away graphical stuff (who uses this in graphical mode anyways? everyone uses it in the CLI…”, and they already plan to drop Windows support. Already ignoring user’s needs and removing functionality. Now, they are perfectly entitled to do whatever in their fork. But how is it a viable competitor to vim in any way?
Even assuming the worst case scenario on what damage AI can do to the progress of vim’s development, who can seriously suggest that 1 person who doesn’t even know the relevant programming langagues can make a better project than hundreds of experienced contributors that are doing it for years, AI or not?
And again, all the power to them, they can have some fun with their fork. But it’s ridicoulus to suggest it as an alternative. Two years from now, vim will have fixed ~1500 issues at the current rate. And will have a bunch of new ones due to AI. Meanwhile this project will be dead, and the latest version will have 1500 unfixed issues that are all fixed in vim.
Taking a stance again AI in vim? Do it, campaign for it, talk to the maintainers, effect change, review PRs and comment about the AI mistakes you see, submit bug reports for bugs caused by AI and make a case for forbidding it’s use. You have my full support. This fork? It’s obviously going nowhere, it’s a waste of effort that could be used to actually stop AI.
Forking open source code is never a waste of effort. That’s literally the reason why open/libre source exists, to have work all done in the open and if some people fundamentally disagree with the work being done, they can start a new workstream.
Of course they can, and I underline that in my comment several times, that this person is free to do it, good for them. I don’t disagree with that at all. I’m sure they will learn a lot and that’s great.
And everyone else is free to evaluate the prospects and realities of that fork.
you could help instead of using ur energy for complaining
That doesn’t even make sense
Yeah. You may as well just download a release tagged before he AI stuff is added.
Where do you think all the contributors to vim came from? Do you think they just appeared day one? This fork just started. Of course there are no other contributors. Every project is a failure if they need to have multiple people working on it the day it’s conceived.
I’d say that every project needs at least one capable person working on it at conception. This one appears to have zero at the moment.
So do you know everyone working on it? To assume noone is capable? Because otherwise this is just offensive. Also the project has been created less than 24 hours ago, so what do u expect already a ton of differences ?
The premise of the comment I responded to was that there are no other contributors besides the the person who forked it, and very same person said that they don’t know vimscript.
Not sure if it’s irony but there’s a whole lot of something there. A bad programmer forking a popular edutor because they were mad about the skilled programmers using AI in any capacity
Does this mean emacs won?
Contributor Licensing Agreements FTW?
It has Vi bindings with Evil, and a nice scripting language with Emacs Lisp.
I recommend Doom Emacs as a readymade packaging that also eliminates the need to strain the fingers for the annoying modifier keys in the vast majority of cases.
😭 – damn, time to try emacs again…
Use Doom Emacs.
Yes
And neovim. Micro has entered the ring
this is why nano is superior
What a strange way to spell emacs
emacs is a fantastic operating system, it just lacks a good editor.
I believe you mean helix
ed
Why can’t projects adding AI just fork a new project with AI?? Call it vimai or something and let people choose it if they want it. Stop ruining things
I can’t figure it out.
For the past hour, I’ve been trying to figure out what anime or series or movie or book or something that I watched in the 2000s, where humanity splits between the pure humans that use less tech, and the tech-forward humans or ai or something, and have spaceship and mecha fights between the two factions of types of humans or whatever that span across the universe.
I can’t figure it out and I give up. Just thought you should know.
Is it possibly Gurren Lagan?
it’s been almost 20 years since I watched it. I honestly don’t remember much of the story. It very well could be, like after they go to space and before the end. Was there ever a dynamic in the story where they were in space and that dynamic was in play?
I’m somewhat curious, though there’s a lot of media with a similar premise. It reminded me of a book series (Starship’s Mage) with a rather different premise I’ve read through (though new books came out since, need to come back sometime), a magic civilization driven by humans who can genetically do magic, including using a ship amplifier to teleport spaceships lightyears at a time, trying to coexist with the faction that actively rejected magic and is trying to advance through technology on their own.
Bro how am I gonna have time to go party with babes if I’m stuck at home coding this non-ai version bro the future is now man bro dude whoa
deleted by creator
Onward with the Butlerian Jihad! Down with vibecoding!
Any idea if Neovim is slop coded too?
Oh man, how about emacs?
Probably safe, contributing to Emacs requires giving the FSF your copyright and AI code isn’t copyrightable in America. Can’t speak for the starter kits, I know Doom Emacs uses AI but don’t know about the others.
Better make an AI free fork of linux too then.
Can’t have all those fancy 7.0 changes in my kernel because some dev used AI to check his code formatting before submitting a PR. I’ll stick with my outdated fork thank you very much. Upstream fix for blatant CVE but the fix includes an AI comment? Nooooo thank you.
I mean its not like there’s a reject button for pull requests or anything. Anyone could just submit AI slop and we’d never know. Not even from the blatantly failing CI tests.
Didn’t Torvald’s already chew people out for committing vibe-coded crap? At least I can rest assured the Linux Kernel doesn’t have dysfunctional generated code in it.
He sort of did the opposite. He chewed people out for trying to put anti AI language into the docs. He said in effect, “We can’t tell if AI was used so it’s stupid to add anti AI requirements.”
I miss the old Torvalds.
He’s the same but with less personal insults.
That’s like a raw kernel downgrade! I wonder if Vintage Torvalds would have allowed AI into the kernel (Linux is now in the Open Slopware list because of that).
He’s not requiring it or suggesting it. He is being pragmatic. If code passes human review, who submitted it doesn’t matter.
Pragmatism has been his defining personality trait. It’s why he has never cared if Linux is used for profit or military.
I can’t tell if you’re joking…
I’m not, unfortunately.
I think actually on the programming side, we’re in a fairly good spot. I really think that AI will be a tool and it will make people more productive. I think that vibe coding is great for getting into programming. I think it’s gonna be a horrible thing to maintain. So I don’t think programmers go away. You still want to have the people who know how to maintain the end result. I’m a huge believer in AI. I’m not a huge believer in the things going on around AI. I find the marketing and the market to be sick and twisted, and there is going to be a crash, and it’s gonna be ugly.
Linus Torvalds
Based
Vibe-coding =/= actual coding. He chewed out someone for committing code that was simply churned out by an AI without checking if it’s actually functional code.
Lemme try find his email…
So… typical Linus response to poor code. You’d don’t really need a source, I’ve seen him go off on bad coders more than once, adding AI doesn’t really change much.
I mean… He did say something along the lines of being incompetent for using AI. Or that incompetence made them use AI.
I think Linus sees some benefit in an AI tool catching problems in code you’ve written, but not as a crutch to vibe-code with.
100% agree, but does your average Lemmy user know the difference between vibe coding vs actual coding using some AI tool? Is vim being vibe coded or are the maintainers just using some AI tools?
Yes, a Spite Fork. Those are always well maintained, drama free and stable open souce communities
Wait what? Vim has AI now? Jfc
I think they’re saying before developers started using AI to write the code, not that there are ai features in vim.
Absolutely against AI coded garbage but trusting this person to pick up something as important as vim is also crazy. I’ll swap to another editor that has been tested and is a proven solution. Focus your knee jerk reactions so you don’t end up in another problem.
slop code in vim? really?? wtf
They call it… Slim.
Wait, what the fuck?
vimhas LLM shit in it now?!?As far as I understand, they are allowing usage of LLM for developing on vim, aka adding features to the editor.
…motherfucker… -_- The only users I block are agentics.
Well, TIL. I’ll have to be more vigilant going forward. God, this era of tech fucking sucks.
Probably a good time to consider helix or ki over vim
Had to look up wth an agentic is. Concur, awful.
yeah
Well, then, it’s time for some emacs action.
I’m using Helix for some months now – I haven’t checked the repo for slop, but if it’s still good then I do recommend it as an alternative.
I switched to Helix as my main editor for home and work a couple years ago, it’s been a dream.
The kakoune editing paradigm (which btw, chef’s kiss), coupled with lsp support and symbol and buffer jumping built in. It’s like if vscode and kakoune had a baby. So good.
Have bigger problems than this. If the code is reviewed and tested, I don’t care if it was written by a human or machine. Sometimes I feel like people don’t trust recording audio on tapes and praise the good old punch cards.
If the code is reviewed and tested, I don’t care if it was written by a human or machine.
That’s a pretty big assumption there buddy.
If they didn’t care enough to write the code, what makes you think they cared enough to review or test the code?
If they didn’t care enough to write the code, what makes you think they cared enough to review or test the code?
Contributors =/= Maintainers.
If the maintainers didn’t care enough to summarily reject anything AI-generated out of hand, what makes you think they cared enough to review or test the code?
You’re dropping assumptions, and nothing more. Why do you think they asked for disclosure of AI usage? People are gonna use it anyway, officially or not. They did this call for this so that it can be reviewed properly.
deleted by creator
You’re way quicker manually reviewing code compared to setting up everything just so that an LLM agent could do that. Additionally, it is open source. Literally nothing gives you any guarantees that the software will work in the first place. If you are scared of that, commercial products are your choice.
You’re way quicker manually reviewing code compared to setting up everything just so that an LLM agent could do that.
Not only that, you’re better off reviewing the code manually so you understand how everything works.
If you understand how things work, you can plan things out.
If you don’t, you’ll end up painting yourself into a corner.
If you are scared of that, commercial products are your choice.
Commercial products are not a panacea for bad software quality.
Code openness and code quality are independent, orthogonal axes.
Did you use a GPS once in your life?
Mostly because AI isn’t capable of doing a perfectly good job without humans at this point. Vim may have started using AI as part of the development toolchain so that tired people working in their free time for free can propel their own work. To me this was always going to happen whether it gets committed discreetly or not. I don’t think people will tolerate it if these commits hurt the long term, reputable stability of Vim.
We can stop pretending that AI isn’t used discreetly in many and perhaps eventually all the projects that we love. Intolerance and toxic harping on open source is still the bigger problem
