Games like System Shock and Deus Ex are examples of “FPS” games with alternatives to shooting. Those kinds of games are completely my jam. I love to find a way to complete the whole level without ever firing a shot. The Deus Ex remake had an achievement for passing a level without ever being spotted in an unauthorized place, never setting off an alarm, etc. It also had one for completing a level without killing anybody. It took 5x as long, but I made sure to get both those achievements on every level.
I’m sure the id software crew knew what they were doing, and the market for demon-murdering FPS games is probably much bigger than the market for First Person Sneakers. OTOH, there are currently a glut of FPS murder games, so there’s probably a real niche for someone who’s willing to create a game where shooting is possible, and happens sometimes, but stealth and nonviolence is also an option.
One of the keys to being happy is just letting other people enjoy things.
Yep and part of that is just letting the things exist and be what they are, even if they aren’t for you.
Let DOOM be what it is for those of us who were the right edgy age at the right time to eat it up. Let the calm games be what they are too, without requiring combat mechanics.
People gotta practice letting go. In general. About literally anything. The correlation I see in my acquaintances between not letting go of trivial shit (including the existence of different types of people that like different things) is stark.
They can enjoy whatever they want, but they have to enjoy them the right way!
This! If someone could explain that to republicans, please?!?
You would first have to explain the concept of other people
Pretty interesting tiktok take on this posted earlier today on lemmy about a boomer meme:
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/just-coffee-black#fnr11
He goes on to talk about what might have motivated the artist to draw the comic, pointing out that nobody has taken black coffee away from him. Pargin says:
"All that happened is the range of options for other people expanded and he perceived that as persecution […] this is not political, this is a human nature thing. Most people are not satisfied to simply have the option to live their life the way they want. They also want to feel normal […] and see that most people have made the same choice they have made.
Clever take on that, thanks for sharing.
Why can’t we have Doom except instead of shooting monsters, we have to manage train schedules? In space?
Is it somehow set in a high school and it’s all anime?
Can we date the Pinky?
Sans the lack of shooting, this will serve.
There are plenty of guns in that game though
Depression.
Your mother sucks off train conductors in deep space!
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1366540/Dyson_Sphere_Program/
Mmm… there are many games that fit that criteria.
This can be overused though. There are dumb mechanics and choices in Fromsoft games that the megafans bend over backwards to defend, and say you’re just “not into the genre” if you criticise them… yet millions of people play and enjoy the games but dislike those aspects.
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And, we can see a huge set of third party fromsoft games that are generally doing well, even after removing the bad parts. I wonder what that says.
I see a lot of people bitch about invasions, but personally I think surprise boss fight is the best mechanic.
There’s literally no reason to bitch about invasions, just play offline.
But then you lose things like the messages on the ground (good and bad) and jolly cooperation as well.
Wo Long straight up just lets you turn player invasions off. I would not mind it being an option, personally. I wouldn’t turn it off most of the time, myself, but I am always for more options than less.
I, personally, want it to work like DS2 but without Soul Memory. No level or weapon upgrade limits. You could be fresh out of the tutorial and be invaded by some level 347 dude with the strongest weapons and beefiest armor. It would be awesome.
Valid reason is you want the online features because messages from other players is content. Counterpoint is, pvp is also content. Counterpoint is, people can want one and not the other, and it’s not that complicated to just give people a toggle. Elden Ring is not worse because of its improvement over the DS invasion system.
I like all the online features that aren’t invasions.
Invasions, however, are simply punishing me for reviving. I don’t seek out PvP, which means I don’t have all the techniques they use for cheap crits, I don’t have a PvP focused loadout (I tend to go for slow weapons and I’m usually not all that optimized), etc., etc., so when I get invaded it’s mostly ‘Welp, this run is a loss. Better die somewhere I can get back to.’ I know I’m going to get one-shotted with some OP weapon from someone who fishes out a lagstab, and it’s been that way since Demon’s Souls.
…just use the item that nullifies it completely?
invasions havent been proper invasions since DS2
I kinda like and appreciate the theme that:
- We should try talking things out with people
- some people will never accept any negotiation
- People (or demons) that don’t negotiate are the ideal candidate for violence
Doom feels so much more cathartic if you can gather a setup where all the demons deserve each ounce of pain.
Also more importantly, people should argue in good faith.
After genuinely laughing at this, I anecdottaly remember my father asking, “If your home sick, why are you playing vidya games?”…it was 'Rise of the Triad" at the time…
“To distract myself from feeling sick!”
I’m being healed by the wololo
Thank you for the only logical response.
If they want to strike up chats with demons they should give Shin Megami Tensei a whirl.
Isn’t this something that happens in Balder’s Gate 3?
“If into the diplomacy options you go, only pain will you find.”
It’s a very mixed bag. You can (technically) do a Pacifist Run in BG3 that leans on conversation to keep earning XP in a game that heavily favors combat rewards.
But without prior experience in the story paths, it can be hard to know who can actually be cajoled and who is innately unreconcileable. Lots of NPCs lie or bluff or just bait you into giving up initiative.
You do get more story in dialogue. So if you don’t mind the odd ambush or icy rebuff, I’d say there’s more to diplomacy than just pain.
I dunno man, I’m going through it for the first time right now and I convinced a demon to kill his minions and himself in front of me.
My group cheered when I convinced him to do that.
Probably because it was the first time I didn’t first seduce the enemy
ahem
STOP LICKING THE DAMN THING!
The Shin Megami Tensei games have speaking to demons as an important part of the gameplay
It’s just always a full moon in DOOM
And honestly I would not be surprised at all to hear a demon in SMT tell me that my mother sucks cock in Hell. And then I’d say something like, “she’s better at it than you” and there’s a 50% chance they like my attitude and decide to join my team, and a 50% chance they get offended and take a free turn.
The insult would be especially great coming from one of these guys:
I would also be mad if a demon said that to me. That’s not nice :c
I expect a demon to say that it would be weird if the demon said something nicer.
“Ah, you must be the tiny-dicked one she mentioned yesterday.”
It’s a line from the movie “The Exorcist”. Coincidentally just watched Ricky Gervais’ new standup special that just came out in which he riffs on this exact line.
It’s important to know your audience. it’s also important to know your not-audience.
Naudience.
naughtyence
I’m confused. I get the The Exorcist reference but I don’t get why it’s relevant here or why this person is going places where people can talk to them about the game if they don’t want people talking to them about the game.
He’s talking to publishers
why this person is going places where people can talk to them
Read the first sentence.
Literally the first fucking sentence.
The reference is an example of a flippant sort of response of answering the request, but with something lacking the depth the person was asking about.
He probably doesn’t mind talking about the game broadly, but it can be a bit much for someone to be annoying about saying it should have been a different genre that they would have enjoyed. I suppose your question could be flipped around, why attend a panel discussing doom if you don’t really care for doom?
I don’t think people would go to one unless they cared which is part of why I am confused. Out of context this just comes off as somebody bragging about being an ass to a random fan.
To me it reads more like an artist who is tired of justifying thier art, and is recalling a time they met notes with honesty.
I feel the bad feedback trope is inverted in 2025. Devs will release a game, get a solid audience, then completely change mechanics or style or direction for no apparent reason. The audience complains (pointing out what they like in the original release), the devs tell them to kick rocks and the game shrivels up and dies.
cough Battlebit cough
Agreed
Wasn’t the original vision of Doom closer to an RPG than the action game it came out to be? I know I read somewhere (one of the books written about development of the game) it was originally meant to have a bigger story, multiple characters, dialogue, etc.
That is correct! Look at the Doom Bible
are you thinking of quake?
No. Doom.
Quake never had any vision, originally. That’s why it seems so random.
… OK, I read masters of doom. Quake had a vision, that vision became daikatana.
The problem was that Romero couldn’t bring everyone on board, because it was too complex and they slapped whatever everyone did together; hence the random design
Check out Doom Bible; Tom Hall’s original design document for Doom. One of the first drafts is where what I am talking about came from.
Sure. It can be true for both games :)
Although, I did play and learn about Rise of the Triad, which is what Tom’s vision for the Wolfenstein 3d sequel turned into, and it was still a run and gun shooter.
EDIT : I suggested quake because you said you were unsure :)
Maybe? The devs played DnD during development and the chapter text definitely sounds like a GM setting the scene. Supposedly Daikatana is closer to John Romero’s vision of
Doom(it was Quake). It’s not great though, so if they tried to implement those ideas back with Doom, it probably wouldn’t have been as well received. Doom has a sort of K.I.S.S. design.
Graphic design is my passion
You gotta understand. This was 1994. Graphic design wasn’t invented yet.
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Sounds like a couple of randos, no one significant. The perspective is the interesting part, not the person expressing the perspective.
I deleted it because the person who did the tweet is the one who was being interviewed. I didn’t read it right
